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The Dark Side of No-Till, Lasagna or Sheet mulching w/ paper & cardboard

Discussion in 'Organic Lawn Care' started by mdvaden, Nov 9, 2009.

  1. Grohorganic

    Grohorganic LawnSite Member
    Messages: 157

    the stop the burn campaing started a long time ago, say the 1940's.....

    now its up to some smart thinkers to introduce fire line's that have been( perish the thought ) logged off. and some of the less old growth thinned( look out for the angry tree hugger) and maybe in some cases the forest lot to be over planted after logging in the first place. but NO some liberal hippies started the no fires and no logging trip and could not see the forest from the trees.

    its the neglect over the last few years that has harmed the NATURAL forest to the extent it it is harmed now, fire was and still is a NATURAL part of the cycle of a forest life. stopping the fires that are natural was the first in a long line of bad choices, not in 2002 but way earlier than that!!!
  2. Grohorganic

    Grohorganic LawnSite Member
    Messages: 157

    lets take a guess at how many fires this tree has seen????

  3. mdvaden

    mdvaden LawnSite Bronze Member
    Messages: 1,946

    My guess would be about every 300 to 500 years, because its in an area thats more damp. That's the same redwood as the Nat Geo Oct. 2009 issue's foldout photo.

    That particular one does not have much in the way of burn marks presently. But there was fire in the grove for sure. The second photo is not far away from it, and has charred burn marks on its trunk.


  4. Grohorganic

    Grohorganic LawnSite Member
    Messages: 157

    so it looks like i healthy forest that burned. lets see some un burned crap, second or third planted stands that are just sh*t
  5. Smallaxe

    Smallaxe LawnSite Fanatic
    Messages: 10,082

    Just because a fire starts from 'natural causes', doesn't necessarily mean it is a good thing. Scotpine needs to have its seed scarified with fire, b4 it will germinate. The likely reason is that it will perform well after a fire, but doesn't compete well in a healthy forest.
    Scotpine is a weed tree and would not be a desired replacement for old growth forest. It is a quick, natural, ground cover that will hopefully help the, natural, disaster recovery. People are a natural part of the biosphere and should develop a sense of stewardship over the rest of the environment. Unfortunately, we can only work with exploitation or neglect.
    Then there are the tree huggers who worship the earth and believe that trees are people too. Do the trees cry out in horror as they burn? They burn because the huggers are too stupid to understand they need to be managed.

    University professors turn around and tell them that we must neglect the forests, let them burn, naturally. Neglect the rivers and streams, let them erode the banks naturally. Neglect the lakes and let them fill up with debris , naturally.
    Now we are suppose to turn absolute control over to these fools, of anything within 1000 feet of any mudpuddle in Wisco. Never give a sucker an even break. We are the dumbest suckers in the world.
  6. ICT Bill

    ICT Bill LawnSite Platinum Member
    Messages: 4,115

    You need to read some of Alex Shigo's books, it will rock your tree world
  7. Smallaxe

    Smallaxe LawnSite Fanatic
    Messages: 10,082

    An Alex Shigo article:
    "Remember, you cannot "feed" a tree, wounds do not "heal," roots
    do not regenerate, wounds do not "bleed," mycorrhizae are organs, and you cannot
    inoculate with organs and finally, wound dressings do not stop decay!
    Ignorance of tree biology has been, and still is, the major cause of tree problems..."

    After a lot of human vs. tree rhetoric he finishes up with the preceding paragraph. I watch bark grow over gouged trunks, broken or pruned branches and I watch sap dripping from a variety of tree wounds.

    I do agree about dissecting trees and understanding anatomy with a chainsaw which I've done for years.
    I've only seen the beginning of his philosophy, so its hard to say, but at this point I am unimpressed.
  8. ICT Bill

    ICT Bill LawnSite Platinum Member
    Messages: 4,115

    I will make sure to inform you when Kevin Smith is speaking in your area, he was very close and has some very profound thoughts about trees

    Excellent quote, higher thinking, group thinking, what makes me stronger makes you stronger

    I don't know for sure but I don't think trees are political, I will ask one tomorrow while walking the dog
  9. mdvaden

    mdvaden LawnSite Bronze Member
    Messages: 1,946

    This lasagna gardening thing came to mind at least twice this week. Forget what prompted the recall, but I remembered having already started the topic, so easier to build on this one.

    In reviewing this thread, the quote above seemed refreshing in light of some tree butchery I saw yesterday. A previous customer requesting help again after having got a "fruit tree expert" in the interim, who apparently was no pruning expert of any kind, and more or less a wood butcher.

  10. mdvaden

    mdvaden LawnSite Bronze Member
    Messages: 1,946

    Interesting reviewing the roundup angle today. I was browsing a bunch of blogs on both sides of the vinegar issue and noticed some good points about how vinegar and detergent mix is still chemical, and more expensive due to repeats and ineffectiveness. I learned similar about orange oil someone asked me to try. Now I lump those in with sheet mulching, although I always leave every option open.

    But for the more part, used sparingly, Glyphosate is sure streamlined.

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