• Thankful For Your Family…. Business?
    Landscaping businesses are often family endeavors. While this can combine the best of both worlds (personal and professional), it isn’t always smooth sailing. Click here to read more.

The real fight

JDUtah

LawnSite Silver Member
Location
UT
Well if you have spent more than two minutes reading in this forum you have realized that there is a constant fight going one. Although attacks are made on a personal level I hope we are all mature enough to understand that the fight is not based on inter-personal conflicts, but rather it is an extension of a debate that is still trying to find an end. And probably never will.

The personal attacks stem from non-personal beliefs. Those beliefs may be categorized into three groups. Synthetic only, Organic only, and Bridge. I will share my opinion of each of these groups. I will be as unbiased as I can.

Synthetic Only
These fellows like the way that synthetics perform. They do not care for any organic approach. While the motives for such a position may vary, it is my experience that most of them have chosen such an extreme position because they have been attacked for not wanting to omit their synthetic tools. These people usually attack organic only users. It has been my experience that this is mainly done as a defensive mechanism triggered by some attack against them in the past.

Organic Only
These folks have decided to do away with synthetics completely. They usually claim that the main reason they have chosen so is they believe that synthetic materials kill the earth. This belief causes them to often attack people who want to use synthetics. It is also evident that they are driven by a fascination of the soil microbial world. In my observation, the mainstream organic only crowd are attracted to it because the fascination of soil microbes, not because of a true belief that synthetics kill the planet. Evidence coming later.

Bridge
Bridge users have done away with the 'this or that' option and have embraced the third option... this and that. These are people who have decided to combine the best uses of both synthetics and organics. If these people decide to enter the debate between organic and synthetic they are often attacked from both sides. Synthetic only folk roll their eyes at them because they use organics. Organic only folks attack them because they use synthetics. These people are often categorized as 'nutjobs' by the synthetic crowd and 'lazy' by the organic crowd.

Conclusion
Which one are you? I know which one you truly aren't. You aren't an organic only person. Some of you may claim so, but evidence proves otherwise. There is no such thing as organic computers. Organic electricity. Organic vehicles. Organic money. Etc. and the bottom line is.. if you are reading or posting on this forum you truly believe in both organic and synthetic materials. You truly are a bridge or synthetic only user.

I am an open bridge guy. I have had various people attack me personally because of it. Do I appreciate it? Of course not. Do I deserve it? I don't believe so. Will those people who decide to post personal things against me please stop.

I am hard against beliefs, but I rarely attack people personally... usually if I have attacked someone personally it is because they have attacked me personally. The personal attacks are what reduce the quality of the threads in this forum. Let us please refrain from personal attacks and leave the debate to principles only please.

Thank you.
 

ecoguy

LawnSite Member
Location
Duncan
Well said JD. For the record, I am an organic only guy with turf and trying to be more so in other areas of my life. The success of my organic only biz will hopefully allow me to do that to a greater degree by affording me the $ living organically often takes.
 
OP
J

JDUtah

LawnSite Silver Member
Location
UT
Well said JD. For the record, I am an organic only guy with turf and trying to be more so in other areas of my life. The success of my organic only biz will hopefully allow me to do that to a greater degree by affording me the $ living organically often takes.
I can appreciate that, albeit IMO the more money you have the less organic you will live. Complete organic can be lived without any money. In fact it must be so. Money is a synthetic item (cash and digital).

But anyways, like I said. I appreciate your position. I would say it is mine too. Organic as much as I can.
 

ICT Bill

LawnSite Platinum Member
Location
Howard County MD
AND.............. after being in the business for some time and going htrough the difficult job of figuring out what works for you and is profitable, it is very difficult to change

There are a couple of things you left out on "why?"

Many of the herbicides used today are endocrine disrupters, they basically short circuit one part of the hormanal system in plants. The chemical companies believe they safe, the EPA is taking a scond look after finding six legged frogs and unisex fish in streams and ponds with detectable levels of herbicides

Nutrient pollution is causing dead zones in bays, lakes and even the huge gulf of mexico. marine life is being wiped out and huge areas can no longer be used to lay eggs and make more

In many areas these tipping points have already tipped over

many areas in the chesapeake bay and many others around the world can no longer support the harvesting of the resource in those bays, what is left is being fished closed to extinction

By taking a "feed the plant" mentality you are contributing to the demise, some have decided to stop and find another way to do it

according to a roedale paper 60% of the nitrogen you apply from chemicals never reaches the plant, you should ask for a refund
It either volitizes into the air to mix with ozone and make nitrous oxide close to 300 time as pwerful as CO2 as a greenhouse gas, it washes off into the gutter contributing to nutrient pollution or leeches into the ground destroying aqufers and wells

Hell they are even finding round up in wells now and plant are becoming round tolerant, so we use something else that is more toxic

Many have had enough and do not want to continue paying the big corporate machine for a bag of fertilizer or toxic pesticides
Many of the customers are demanding that we be better stewards and are asking for less toxic cocktails on their yards
Of 30 commonly used lawn pesticides 16 are toxic to birds, 24 are toxic to fish and 11 are deadly to bees

I am in the camp that says "ENOUGH"!
You didn't have that one on your list, I just thought I would point it out
 

Tim Wilson

LawnSite Senior Member
"There is no such thing as organic computers. Organic electricity. Organic vehicles. Organic money. Etc. and the bottom line is.. "

This is complete utter misinterpretation and childish to the uppermost. There may be a few people who believe and live so but as I said previously the modern research and advances in the understanding of microbial nutrient cycling are cutting edge science and technology, not the opposite as you seem to wish to believe. You have a fundamental mental block here
 

Landscape Poet

LawnSite Gold Member
Location
Oviedo/Orlando
"There is no such thing as organic computers. Organic electricity. Organic vehicles. Organic money. Etc. and the bottom line is.. "

This is complete utter misinterpretation and childish to the uppermost. There may be a few people who believe and live so but as I said previously the modern research and advances in the understanding of microbial nutrient cycling are cutting edge science and technology, not the opposite as you seem to wish to believe. You have a fundamental mental block here
I have to agree with Tim here, I do not see Organic as going back to a time before the invention, rather I see Organic as a approach.
In regards to this site, I see organic's as a approach to limiting or doing without the use of synthetic fertilizers or chemical pesticides. I never thought of people that say they provide Organic lawn care as people that show up with a heard of goats to cut the grass! Same way I do not think of Synthetic guys showing up with a chemical lab on the back of the truck. It is a approach to solving a problem.
Interesting concept though - wonder how people would react if I showed up with some goats and cows to mow for their lawns.:dizzy::dizzy::dizzy:
 

starry night

LawnSite Platinum Member
Conclusion[/B]
Which one are you? I know which one you truly aren't. You aren't an organic only person. .
No, I'm not an organics only person. I'm trying to be an organics only lawn person. That's the best I can do -- my little part. Maybe others will go along and do their little part. In the meantime, I am also a businessman and plan to be in the vanguard of organic lawn care----the better way to grow turf.
 
Top