The ZTR somebody should build?

Discussion in 'Lawn Mowing' started by Realslowww, Jun 26, 2012.

  1. Realslowww

    Realslowww LawnSite Bronze Member
    Messages: 1,527

    I have 2 super Z's and after owning these for 6 years and learning just how much potential a ZTR has to mow grass this is what I believe somebody should build.

    My Super was a great design platform wise but had some shortcomings but with newer hydraulics becoming available and more motor options I have come to the conclusion this is what should be available for the real tough job's.

    Using a basic platform like my standard Super which has a real low center of gravity which is real important to me someone should take such a design and truly finish it right!

    The Mega mower would be this, if possible a heavy duty 2 speed hydraulic drive. 1 speed would be torque for climbing hills which would top out at like 8 to 10 MPH and you could lock it in position with a lock to keep employee's from hot roding:laugh:,I am serious and 1 speed for blasting flat open areas out that goes like 15 to 18MPH..

    Then the motor would be a water cooled fuel injected gas vertical shaft V twin or v 4 ,no diesel to heavy but maybe an option. A gas motor of around 1200 to 1500cc that makes 45 to 60 HP.

    Dual blade drive belts stacked on top of each other so there would be no slippage of blades,Bigger wider tires on the rear with a dual wheel option for rear.

    That is in my opinion what somebody needs to build to take these things where no man has boldly gone before in the area of Grass Trek! :)
  2. mnglocker

    mnglocker LawnSite Senior Member
    Messages: 758

    Just get a combine at that point.
  3. Realslowww

    Realslowww LawnSite Bronze Member
    Messages: 1,527

    How much does a combine cost? that is the thing such a mower would be able to do steep grades mow about anything for about 15000 $. You would take it and put a gang of self powered pull behind units behind it and totally obsolete the big tractor design for the most part.

    There is a good size market for this.

    I am surpised it has already not happened,look at the roadway mowers that cost probably 100 to 200 Grand? and you could build this setup to out cut that for 25 grand with no problem and be much cheaper to fix and easier to work on. Way easier to transport as well.
    Last edited: Jun 26, 2012
  4. KrayzKajun

    KrayzKajun LawnSite Fanatic
    Messages: 10,737

    For the price it would cost for something like that, you could have a tractor w/ fel, 4wd enclosed cab with ac/radio. And still have money left over
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  5. Mark Oomkes

    Mark Oomkes LawnSite Fanatic
    Messages: 14,769

    A couple issues.

    You can't get a decent cut at 15-18 MPH. On top of that, most lawns are not smooth enough to mow at that speed.

    Secondly, you going to have a oil refinery in your backyard? And a gold mine in the front to pay for the refining?

    If you want something close to this, take a look at a Toro Groundsmaster 360. Only problem is it's a 72" deck.
  6. Realslowww

    Realslowww LawnSite Bronze Member
    Messages: 1,527

    This would not be for finish mowing,INDUSTRIAL MOWING. A deck designed for bush hog style stuff were you could lower the front baffel for a finish cut.

    You could do a light duty cab with AC but that would be pricey, if you got it stuck 1 or 2 guy's could get it out with no problem. You could do a all wheel drive as well but then you are ruining the beauty of the machines simplicity and price.

    You could build it for 15000 $, a large tractor with a cab is what 100,000 easy?

    It would be a specially designed unit from the ground up, the cutter ZTR would be 72 inches and then you would pull up to 4 or more 500 pound 25 to 30 HP 72 inch cut pull behinds for a total of around 30 feet or more in 1 swath.

    Then you just unhook the pull behinds to do steep grades as you are going along and you could also have a tiny trailer trailing behind in the middle of the unit with a 48 Hydro walk behind with dual tires like the Scag option just in case you run into a area that is to narly to ride as well as have weedeaters on the trailers as well.

    A complete all in one unit that one man can use to do huge areas like quick! All for under 30 to 35 grand!
  7. KrayzKajun

    KrayzKajun LawnSite Fanatic
    Messages: 10,737

  8. Realslowww

    Realslowww LawnSite Bronze Member
    Messages: 1,527

  9. williams lcm

    williams lcm LawnSite Bronze Member
    Messages: 1,170

    I think we have come along way since the rider mower. When top speed was about 6mph and top hp was about 18hp. In this society today everyone want things bigger, faster just to get more multi-tasking done. Our brains today have to be jacked up on energy drinks just to get a million things done in a day. In my mind I think we should slow it down a tad and enjoy life more. I think 37hp is more than plenty of power and 15mph is plenty fast. We should make a machine that can cut grass ,edge ,string trim and have a built in blower to blow of debris. We got to work smarter and not harder in this business.
  10. Brieldo

    Brieldo LawnSite Member
    Messages: 192

    I'll bite on this.

    From an engineering perspective, it's not practical for a few reasons.
    1. The decks used for industrial mowing have to be capable of handling unforeseen objects laying in the grass: rocks, stumps, etc. The kinds of blades and gear boxes uses for such environments are not designed, nor capable of the high speed cutting finish mowers undertake.
    2. It's not as easy as simply having an adjustable baffle which could be manipulated for varied cutting conditions. The fundamental designs of decks and their inherent parts are totally different.

    Drive Systems:
    1. The drive systems on ZTR's are designed to carry the machine at a high speed with a high level of maneuverability. This is facilitated by giving up some efficacy in the way of hauling/pulling capability. In order to accomplish what you're proposing, with the ability to pull two pull-behind mowers, you would need a drive system analogous to that on a skid steer. Such a system adds significant cost and complexity, both in the way of the drive system itself, as well as the systems required to allow it to operate (larger engine, etc). Such a change would also dramatically increase weight, which is a negative on a mower that would potentially also be used for finish mowing. I don't think any of your customers would want a 3-5000 lb mower bombing around their yards. The negative implications on the turf would be significant.

    You vastly underestimate the power requirements of increased hydraulic power. Look at the big Groundsmaster/Deere mowers with hydraulic deck drives. All that extra power is needed to drive the hydraulic motors on the decks. If a 37 hp air-cooled engine is appropriate for an air-cooled 72" Hustler, start calculating what kind of power would be required to turn the pumps on a mower with skid steer wheel motors, a large deck drive system, etc. It's pretty heady.

    The Intangibles:
    This machine would be useful in very few locations. It's way too big for residential properties, the complexity of it is a negative, as a simple tractor/bush hog combo would facilitate the same level of industrial mowing efficacy at both lower cost and lower maintenance thresholds.

    The Economics:
    Frankly, from a business perspective, it makes very little sense. What you're proposing would be over $30,000 without too much effort. Simply look at a diesel zero turn like a Ferris or Kubota. Those are pushing $20k and they're just finish mowing ZTR's. Now increase the drive system scope, increase the deck drive system, increase the frame and underpinnings to carry the whole thing...the costs add up extremely rapidly. Such a machine would probably have at least 10K in the engine and hydraulics alone. It just doesnt make sense. Furthermore, the market for such a machine would be nil. It breaks down something like this assuming a 30k price point:
    1. If you need to simply finish mow, buy a ZTR for 10k.
    2. If you need to finish mow and brush hog, buy your ZTR for 10k, and some kind of tractor/bush hog with the other 20. Mind you said tractor could also be used as a loader, a grader, etc; functions this super-industrial mower would be incapable of.
    Customers would not be inclined to purchase some super mower that really doesn't do anything exceptionally well and is such a monstrosity the benefits of having a zero-turning radius and agility are significantly diminished.
    Unfortunately it just doesnt make any sense.
    Last edited: Jun 26, 2012

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