Thinking of going to peace work

Discussion in 'Employment' started by C&C Landscaping, Oct 14, 2018.

  1. That Guy Gary

    That Guy Gary LawnSite Silver Member
    Messages: 2,703

    That's actually how you calculate OT for a non-exempt salaried employee.

    For piece work you have to take their total wages for the week and divide it by hours worked to figure out their straight pay for the week, then add the additional .5 per hour over 40 based on that rate. So $500 for 50 hours is 500/50 for $10/hr base pay, and then an additional $5/hr for 10 hrs OT.

    This can be a bookkeeping nightmare if they don't perform the same jobs week after week!
    Tara Ann, hort101 and Mark Oomkes like this.
  2. Mark Oomkes

    Mark Oomkes LawnSite Fanatic
    Messages: 18,566

    Thanks, you did a much better job than I did. It's been so long that I really didn't remember how to do it exactly. I shouldn't have tried.
  3. danothemano

    danothemano LawnSite Senior Member
    Messages: 317

    I can speak for this, back in the day I detailed cars at a wholesale auction business, we were paid per car, but it was set up like an assembly line, washers earned $3.50 per car, buffers made the same, then two people worked the interiors at $3.15 per car, then the window guy got $2.50 per car.

    We would be given a certain number of cars to do each day, once ur done, ur done. One positive is peers tend to hold peers accountable, if you slow down, someone will whip you into shape. But also it encourages to cut corners and see what you can get away with, some were more shady about that than others.

    There was a QA guy at the end after the window guy sends it up, they will go over the car and if something needs redone, they will drive it back to your line to correct. The QA guys were paid hourly so they had no incentive to allow you to cut corners.

    In the event we worked over time, we would get minimum wage pay for each hour worked over 40.

    Then for pto, you would just get the $8 for an 8 hour day, so you would get the day off but they only pay you $64
  4. kemco

    kemco LawnSite Silver Member
    Messages: 2,206

    Yeah I see one companys crew here in town every time I see them they are literally hopping out of the truck or running behind mowers. Now I've never stayed to see a finished product so as far as quality I have no clue. But I've always figured they got paid piece meal or some incredible bonus based on time. I couldnt get guys to move that fast if I lit a fire under them.
  5. TPendagast

    TPendagast LawnSite Fanatic
    Messages: 16,019

    Peice work only requires that you pay them AT LEAST min wage plus ot if worked.

    For example

    If $500 is the number
    And they worked 50 hours total
    And min wage is $10/hr
    Then their min pay by law is
    40x10 (400) and 10 x 15 (150) or a total of 550...
    meaning even thou they earned $500 via peice work you owe them $550 min by law.

    So if they earned over the minimum you don’t have to do any special math
    Just pay them

    You only need to figure out the minimums if they are not
    performing well
    (Sometimes this could happen because of rain, breakdowns or other things out of their control)

    If they habitually don’t perform well they will weed themselves out as they will quit to find someone who will pay hourly so they can milk them.

    It doesn’t matter if they do work that’s different week to week
    Their minimum is always the same.

    Always make sure the jobs you are having them perform are priced based on the assumption of $17 an hour and you’ll be ok, price wise. (Labor )

    Don’t try to price jobs assuming minimum wage or peice work won’t work

    The idea isn’t to give lower prices
    The idea is to keep workers incentivized through performance

    If the job would normally take a guy an hour
    And it would normally pay him 17/hr
    That price shouldn’t change

    The idea is if the guy completes that job
    He gets $17
    If he does ten of them a day then he gets paid $170

    If it takes him 8 hours to complete the route he’s averaging $21.25/hr

    If it takes him 12 hours to complete the route (8 regular and 4 overtime which equals 14 regular for easy math ... $170/14) he’s averaging $12.14/hr

    You can control OT averaging by watching his production
    Once he reaches 36 hours (three days of 12 hours and not getting crap done) don’t assign him
    Anymore work
    Tell him to get some rest abd try again next week.
    Give the work he didn’t complete to the guys that are kicking tail
    The more work they complete the more they get paid, it’s like giving them a raise every time another worker drops the ball
    knox gsl likes this.
  6. TPendagast

    TPendagast LawnSite Fanatic
    Messages: 16,019

    You’re looking at a crew with a leader present
    This means he’s got some ownership or profit sharing and is motivated and he’s directing the crew instead of being their friends.
    Tara Ann and MNLawns like this.
  7. Charles

    Charles Moderator Staff Member
    Messages: 11,655

    I have seen a company that must have been doing this. Talk about tire marks:rolleyes: Must have had no supervisor for quality control
    hort101 likes this.
  8. That Guy Gary

    That Guy Gary LawnSite Silver Member
    Messages: 2,703

    Nope. With the exception of a few trades like sales they are not OT exempt.

    You must pay them additional wages beyond 40 hours. If agreed upon between employer and employee they can pay 1.5x the piece rate for work completed during OT hours, that's the only other option.

    It's even more fun to calculate in California, because they have decided since you must pay for mandatory rest periods you have to calculate how much time an employee spent at rest, and pay them additional since it's mandatory and they were not working!

    You can review the provisions ins Sec 207 (g) of the FLSA:

    If legalese isn't your first language the NFIB breaks it down pretty well.
    Mark Oomkes likes this.
  9. TPendagast

    TPendagast LawnSite Fanatic
    Messages: 16,019

    You’re way over complicating it

    Yes you must pay OT
    You can ALWAYS pay them MORE than the amount of pay they are due.
    You can’t pay them less.

    If hours worked plus OT equals $550... the DOL doesn’t say “hey you! Stop paying that man $700!”

    What California is says is it’s reauired that you include downtime (like if they have a flat tire) which isn’t really an issue in our field because most of us are paying that time anyway.

    If the guy is there from 8am to 8 pm you most calculate his pay based 12 hours and can only take out his time if he took lunch... not “non productive time”
    This is something that applies maybe to manufacturing or mechanics but doesn’t really factor into our profession... we’re already doing that.

    The guys that are producing and kicking tail aren’t going to be an issue, they’re always going to be making more than the state law.... with a few exceptions for weather or massive down time like I already mentioned.

    The dudes that aren’t performing won’t be too much a problem for long, they won’t stay when everyone else is kicking $18-20/hr and they’re getting minimum wage... you maybe have them for 1-2 weeks.

    Other than that your guys are always above the minimum.

    You can make a simple excel spread sheet (so you’re only doing the calculations once) and plug in reg hours and ot hours once a week to make sure the number that spits out is less than what they get peice rate.
    Save it in the employee file in case there’s an inquiry.. easy, done.

    In the event the minimum plus OT is for some reason higher than the piece rate you have to pay them that.

    Basically you’re always paying them the higher of the two numbers.

    But it’s not nearly as hard to figure out as you’re making it.
  10. TPendagast

    TPendagast LawnSite Fanatic
    Messages: 16,019

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