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thoughts on ConExpo

8K views 41 replies 17 participants last post by  Tigerotor77W 
#1 ·
Just got back, still downloading and consolidating photos, most I will likely put on my Facebook page. Couple things I noticed

1. The Chinese are becoming a player in the Heavy Equipment market. At the 08 show Sany had a small postage stamp of a lot. This time huge, complete line including cranes. I checked a lot of these companies out. Their fit and finish is getting better and better. Obviously don't know how they run but if the visual signs of quality build construction are any indication, they are making a run at it.

2. Don't know who the marketing guy is at NH but the guy is genius. There were some very attractive girls dancing and helping to intro products and when their show started everybody gathered around to watch. Pretty impressive display. That blue skid steer was way cool.

3. This my 4th show and it was obvious there are fewer contractors and venders at this one. Still a lot of people there but not what I have seen in years past.

4. Vegas is struggling. Half done concrete foundations of future buildings which have stood since 08 they are in forclosure. One in five homes for sale Bad deal.

5. The CASE skid steers have E/H from the top to the bottom of the new line up. Either they made a mistake or changed their minds from earlier but you can have it either way E/H or manual controls.

6. Deeres big surprise was kinda weak I thought.

7. TK is now releasing the 153 with variable displacement at the aux. with improved GPM production finally. They had a smaller display than last time.

8. CASE put on a cool party at Caesar's. Tried to empty the place of Jack Daniels but they had more then I could drink, took a little while to realize that however.

9. ASV's skid steer needs a little more work I think. Nothing huge but the entry into the cab is ridiculous, they have the hyd ports on the tilt cylinders in such a place that they will certainly get sheared off, just things like that which jumped out at me. I talked with Terex guys, very cool.

All in all good times. Got some ideas, made some contacts and got tons of info. Even won a couple hundred on the Roulette wheel.
 
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#6 ·
I loved the asains that were going around taking pictures of all the new deere and cat equipment so they can copy it and make a new copycat machine. I laughed my ass off when the deere guy slammed the door shut so one couldnt get a picture of the pumps
 
#7 ·
What the funny thing about Deere and the chatterbox is that it brought people to the booth and while they were there, oh by the way they unveiled the largest loader and ADT that company has ever produced. It did it's job and is STILL doing it's job b/c everyone is still talking about it. I applaud Deere for using something clever like this to get people to the booth without the need to hire hookers to walk around or have stupid circus side shows.
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#8 ·
I am not knocking the chatter box thing. It was a clever idea. The sideshift backhoe was lame in the sense they over promised and under delivered. Classic marketing mistake. The largest ADT that they don't produce you mean to say? They paint it and decal it. Bell makes it. The loader is most likely made by Liebber, but I not sure on that.

The Chinese have made a living reverse engineering practically everything they produce from our fighter aircraft to heavy equipment. They are good at
it and getting better, we spend the money on R&D and they rip it.
 
#9 ·
What's the big difference between drawing people to a booth with a chatterbox, dancing backhoes or real hot strippers???? Not really much because all three are just some form of marketing designed to stir conversation or catch the attention of someone walking by.

The funny thing to me is that most of the guys that go out to ConExpo will visit the Deere booth anyway and the strippers cost way less than the marketing hype that Deere developed for their marketing.
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#10 ·
The funny thing to me is that most of the guys that go out to ConExpo will visit the Deere booth anyway and the strippers cost way less than the marketing hype that Deere developed for their marketing.
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And the strippers will give you a good lap dance inside the Deere Chatterbox.
 
#12 ·
The largest ADT that they don't produce you mean to say? They paint it and decal it. Bell makes it. The loader is most likely made by Liebber, but I not sure on that.
From what I've heard from others, the rock truck isn't a Bell. That loader is definitely all Deere, I think the only wheeled loaders in Deere's line that may have at one time (or still are) made by someone else was the two smallest ones. The new 755k is 100% as well, no longer a liebherr like the previous models.
 
#13 ·
From what I've heard from others, the rock truck isn't a Bell. That loader is definitely all Deere, I think the only wheeled loaders in Deere's line that may have at one time (or still are) made by someone else was the two smallest ones. The new 755k is 100% as well, no longer a liebherr like the previous models.
If Bell doesn't build this ADT then it would be interesting to know who does. However the point was that Deere doesn't. Your point is taken on the loader. I was thinking about their dozer line and not the wheel loader my bad.
 
#14 ·
If Bell doesn't build this ADT then it would be interesting to know who does. However the point was that Deere doesn't. Your point is taken on the loader. I was thinking about their dozer line and not the wheel loader my bad.
Just a clarifying point. The only machines in Deere's booth that wasn't designed and built in a Deere factory was the 470G and 1050J.
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#15 ·
If Bell doesn't build this ADT then it would be interesting to know who does. However the point was that Deere doesn't. Your point is taken on the loader. I was thinking about their dozer line and not the wheel loader my bad.
The older Deere trucks were designed and built by Bell, then Deere started manufacturing them themselves to Bell's designs. The new truck has no Bell influence in it. Deere both designed, and builds the new truck. It's definitely not built by someone else.

As for the dozer line, if you check into it you'll find that Deere builds all of them except the two largest models, the 950 and 1050, and that will most likely be brought in house in the near future.
 
#18 ·
I loved the asains that were going around taking pictures of all the new deere and cat equipment so they can copy it and make a new copycat machine. I laughed my ass off when the deere guy slammed the door shut so one couldnt get a picture of the pumps
That was awesome. Then there was the little guy trying to peel off cat stickers.
 
#19 · (Edited)
I loved the asains that were going around taking pictures of all the new deere and cat equipment so they can copy it and make a new copycat machine. I laughed my ass off when the deere guy slammed the door shut so one couldnt get a picture of the pumps
Edit: this isn't directed at you directly, Dirtman -- it's just a response to the thought of copy-catting in general. To put it bluntly, while there continues to be a large amount of copy-cating, you are sorely mistaken if you think that Chinese manufacturers are content to only copy Western equipment. Manufacturers who believe that all the photo taking is just for Chinese manufacturers to reverse engineer their own golden products are going to have a rude awakening. Given all the alleged resources and government backing of Chinese manufacturers, why wouldn't they just buy a machine and disassemble it? How effective are 2D photos of an assembled, inaccessible machine?

It looks like as of Thursday 117K people had been through the gates in Vegas. Guess we will see what the final numbers are. They say that 25% are from outside the U.S. which is a record. You can gleen for yourself what that means.
We'll see what the numbers are, but this is the first Conexpo after the start of the recession. Regardless of whether the recession and down economy is completely over, in my opinion growth won't come back to the show immediately.
 
#20 ·
I would like to hear more about the Terex displays. what were they highlighting? I think they are done buying out companies and may be starting to put more into developement as evidenced by their updated tlb designs.
 
#21 ·
Edit: this isn't directed at you directly, Dirtman -- it's just a response to the thought of copy-catting in general. To put it bluntly, while there continues to be a large amount of copy-cating, you are sorely mistaken if you think that Chinese manufacturers are content to only copy Western equipment. Manufacturers who believe that all the photo taking is just for Chinese manufacturers to reverse engineer their own golden products are going to have a rude awakening. Given all the alleged resources and government backing of Chinese manufacturers, why wouldn't they just buy a machine and disassemble it? How effective are 2D photos of an assembled, inaccessible machine?
Everyone might already know this,
My wife's cousin works for Cat and he claims that Asians had completely dissassembled a D6 for instance and reverse engineered it. They went so far as to take molds where necessary and not even remove casting numbers on their new parts. Dirty, Dirty, Dirty!...if it is true.
 
#22 ·
Everyone might already know this,
My wife's cousin works for Cat and he claims that Asians had completely dissassembled a D6 for instance and reverse engineered it. They went so far as to take molds where necessary and not even remove casting numbers on their new parts. Dirty, Dirty, Dirty!...if it is true.
The deere guy that slammed the door was talking same stuff. Moldlines, extraneous machining, matching bolt patterns, ect.
 
#24 ·
I would like to hear more about the Terex displays. what were they highlighting? I think they are done buying out companies and may be starting to put more into developement as evidenced by their updated tlb designs.
Terex had a big display area. I spoke with a guy that used to be an engineer with them and now is the North American market manager (not exact title but his exact title escapes me).

I chatted with him for about a half an hour. Very cool guy. He stated that Terex sold off O&K which provided them with money to make huge improvements to the remaining product line especially the TLB and develop the skid steer as well as others. The TLB is designed especially for the NA market and spec wise goes head to head with the market leaders. Their marketing was evident at ConExpo since they had signage all over the BH about better breakout then CASE, more ground clearance then CAT etc. He said that he really likes working for Terex. He likes their committment to improving the product and working with the customer. It sounds like sound bits when I write it, but the guy seemed very genuine. I expressed what Dig Deep and I have discussed reference CAT's use of their ASV undercarriage and the damage that did to their credibility for their machines. Since the average customer doesn't know the whole story. He totally agreed with that position.

I came away impressed with my small interaction with the Terex representatives. I think they are consolidating and making the products that they do produce better. He did not see them offering full size excavators anytime soon. He said things come up and that may change but at the moment that was not a plan. He went on to say but as you know Terex has the process of aquiring other OEMs down to a science. Had to agree with that.
 
#26 · (Edited)
Everyone might already know this,
My wife's cousin works for Cat and he claims that Asians had completely dissassembled a D6 for instance and reverse engineered it. They went so far as to take molds where necessary and not even remove casting numbers on their new parts. Dirty, Dirty, Dirty!...if it is true.
The deere guy that slammed the door was talking same stuff. Moldlines, extraneous machining, matching bolt patterns, ect.
I guess there is no such thing as Patent laws in China? I can't understand how they can get away with carbon copy machines.:confused:
These three posts actually reflect what I ignored -- I was focusing on the major brands who have significant growth aspirations... not necessarily anyone who only wants to rip off the Western makes. There's likely to be a small percentage of fakes/ripoffs that are separate from the XCMG, Sany, Liugong, and other reputable manufacturers.
 
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