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Tons of Questions, I hope Intelligent ones!

Discussion in 'Pesticide & Herbicide Application' started by Whitey4, Dec 27, 2007.

  1. Whitey4

    Whitey4 LawnSite Silver Member
    Messages: 2,448

    OK, so I am crash coursing on apps of all kinds. I spent an hour and a half with my Lesco dealer today, and have been doing some serious freakin Googling. As Ric said in another thread, consider the source. After doing that, I now ask for opinions on what I've found so far. Some specific questions:

    After new lawn renovation seeding, over seeding or spot seeding, especially for the spring season, I found two products that I think could be useful for spring seedings:

    Quick Silver- Expensive, and should only be applied after the new turf has germinated for at least a week. Any pros or cons to this?

    Tupersan - Seems like the best option, won't harm new cool weather grasses while providing 4 to 6 weeks of weed control. Can even be applied with a starter fert prior to germination?

    Other pre-emergent controls:

    Now I've read that pendimethylin can have an adverse affect on tiurf, as it is a root inhhibitor. Is a combo of Treflon and Balon a better way to go? Basically, that is the Dimension combo.

    Any opinions on Trimec welcome, pros and cons.

    Getting a bit antsy about Barricade. This stuff just takes a long time to go away. The 8 months effectiveness scares me for lawns I might want to over seed. As of now, I think I will avoid using it, unless I get info to support it's use.

    What glyphosphate weed killer do you folks recommend? Killzall has a higher concetration of this chemical, vs. Round-Up, but what are the cons? I mean aside from spraying when the wind is up?

    I hope I'm not being a pain in the butt.... but I am not going to go out there with my thumb up my arse this spring. I am glad that there is a site like this where I can ask newbie questions and get another source of info and opinions. In advance, thank you for any replies. Just looking to get more sources as I formulate my opinions (and my apps plan for 2008) before I pull the trigger on buying anything. (as some of you know, I start my 30 hour course next week, but I want to go in with as much knowledge as possible so I can get the most out of my 275 bucks!)
  2. RigglePLC

    RigglePLC LawnSite Fanatic
    Messages: 13,708

    Tupersan is problematical--its for new seedings only--double the cost, and it doesn't last long enough to control a serious crabgrass situation. Gone in 4 weeks.

    For starters. Barricade is fine--the length of time it remains in the soil depends on how much you use. Go with the low or medium rate--it will be gone by fall. I used the lowest rate last year, a half pound active ingredient per acre. Dimension was slightly more effective.

    Dimension is a (best-selling) product by itself.

    Dimension has no relation to Balan and Treflan (this combination is called Team).

    Root-pruning by Pendamethalin? Part of the sales pitch by the people selling Dimension.
  3. rcreech

    rcreech Sponsor
    Male, from OHIO
    Messages: 6,163


    As far as Quick Silver...you can also use it prior to seeding (which is what I would recommend).

    If you used a product like Trimec, Three Way you would have to wait 2-3 weeks to seed.

    You can spray Quick Silver and seed anytime after. This will give you a cleaner start in an inter/overseed situation.

    If you are going for a renovation or starting over I would go with Glyphosate and Quicksilver!

    Quick Silver looks expensive, but you are only using 1.5 oz/acre.

    I add it to the tank for all my lawn applications also to spike my Three Way as it increases the kill to about 3-5 days (depending on the weather), and also picks up some harder to kill weeds such as Ground Ivy and Wild Violet.

    I have found Quick Silver (carfentrazone) to be an awesome product and it fits my program very well! It is worth the added cost in my opinion as we have high populations of problematic weeds and it makes me stand out against the competition as they don't use the product and their lawns look good except they are full of Wild Violet!

    As far as Glyphosate...we talk about it on here all the time. Best answer is buy the cheapest 41% product you can find. Technially it is about all the same just with some differences in surfactants.

    Not sure about where you live but right now Gly is running about $19.50/gallon for 41% and around $26.50 for the 48.8%.
  4. Whitey4

    Whitey4 LawnSite Silver Member
    Messages: 2,448

    Thanks, I made some corrections and additions to my notes. Yes, some of the places I've researchedare at the manufacturers, the suppliers web sites, so I knew some of the info needs to be taken with a big grain of salt.

    Again, thanks for the help!
  5. Ric

    Ric LawnSite Fanatic
    Messages: 11,969


    I am Glad I got through to someone. But at the same time I did not try and answer your Question. Know your Limitation and Stay with in them. I am a Warm Season C-4 Turf Guy. Although I have read much about C-3 cool Season turf here at Lawnsite, I am not Qualified to answer those questions.
  6. Whitey4

    Whitey4 LawnSite Silver Member
    Messages: 2,448

    Ric, when I knew I had to do maintenance and apps as a part of my business, which I wanted to be primarily garden and planting designs and installations, I knew I was taking a very large bite. Everything I've ever done in my life (I'm 52) I did as professionally as I possibly could.

    There is only one way to be a professional. Be legal, and be an expert. That was my intention all along. Those goals will take some time to achieve, but achieve it I will. What did bug me when I first joined this site was to be painted with a broad brush as just another guy that knew squat.

    I came in with a plan. I knew I needed to learn tons about turf management, and I segmented what I would research first. The first thing I wanted to know was what types of grasses I would be using, what growing environments they did best in, what height they should be cut at, when and how to seed, how to properly amend soil for optimal growing conditions, pH adjustments, what types of lime work best without chemically binding desirable nutrients that might inhibit uptake by the root system, etc. and so on. Once I felt comfortable with that...

    I started in with apps, only about a week ago. This was my intention from the outset. I simply could not do it any other way. I was appalled at what my best friend (a solo guy, unlicensed) knew, or didn't know, more accurately. He actually used to do my lawn, and now I learn he doesn't measure pH, only puts lime down automatically to get the billing, and uses the same fert mix 4X's a year! He never aerates. There was no way I would operate like that.

    So, from the outset, this was my plan. I got more active here because there is so much to apps, I needed as many sources of info I could find. I started my business last year, but found I needed steadier income than what plantings could provide. I started with 10 customers, and found myself with 30 by the end of the year. So, I haven't been running around blindly doing apps, although I did sneak in a few using homeowner type products like Scotts and Ortho that I knew were safe and how and when to apply. That was my band-aid fix until after my cleanups.

    So, when it came to me, you were preaching to the choir. I never disagreed with your opinions, the difference was I had not yet gotten around to studying apps yet. I was signed up for my 30 hour course two months ago. I wish I could get struck by lightning and have all this info shocked into my skull! LOL.... but it takes time and effort and most importantly, initiative.

    So, I guess what I am saying is because someone asks dumb questions, doesn't mean he's dumb... rather trying to learn, and that's a good thing. It's the guys like my friend Jim that are what worries me now. Clueless, but doing apps anyway, and could care less.
  7. quiet

    quiet LawnSite Senior Member
    Messages: 720

    I think you'll find everyone here happy to help - particularly with the "knotty problems" that arise. We all experience them, and the sharing of info here is of great value.

    You'll find most of the disdain is really saved for those who simply won't do their own work; such as reading labels, developing an understanding of what their doing, and what they're trying to accomplish. This is particularly true when an unlicensed applicator wishes to have us "do the work" for him.

    We've spent a lot of hours, (and a lot of money) learing what we know. I recall when I first started reading here, someone mentioned that it took several years to become proficient as an applicator. It's very true. Ric's comment about staying within your limitations is right on.

    Start with the basics. Know YOUR area: YOUR soils, YOUR turfgrasses . . . what works in my area has little to do with your area. And then just keep building on your base of knowledge.
  8. americanlawn

    americanlawn LawnSite Fanatic
    from midwest
    Messages: 5,954

    Ric -- we started using Q4 last summer on bluegrass lawns after reading Victor's advice. Man did it work! Even killed nutsedge. We still have some Drive to use up, but after that's gone, we'll use Q4 from then on.

    BTW you can call me 'pasture grass' :laugh:anytime, cuz I finally figured out your tongue & cheek humor. group hug:usflag:

  9. LawnTamer

    LawnTamer LawnSite Gold Member
    Messages: 3,986

    A great way to give carfentrazone, (quick silver) a try is by using SpeedZone by PBI Gordon, it is a 3-way solution with carfentrazone added, great product, easy to mix and use.

    I also second what was said about prodiamine, (Barricade). When used at a medium to low rate there will not be any problem with fall overseeding.
  10. rcreech

    rcreech Sponsor
    Male, from OHIO
    Messages: 6,163


    He is talking about using Quick Silver on a newly seeded lawn. He would not want to use Speedzone on newly seeded lawn as it could severly injure the new seedlings.

    I have priced Speed Zone and it is actually quite a bit cheaper to do your own tank mix (Three Way and Quick Silver) then to buy it premixed.

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