[Laner]

I am looking at purchasing a new mower with a 60" deck and bagging system. We have always owned Toro zero turns but never bagged with them. We use JD X739's for bagging in Spring and Fall, but want to use the zero turns for bagging as well. The Toro's have changed a lot since our last new z turn Z550 and Z286e. I have talked to a couple guys that have had wheel motor problems with their Toro's. I like the EFI for better fuel economy, but Deere doesn't offer it in the 9xxR models. The speed of the 9xxM series is only 10 mph vs. 12 mph on the 9xxR series and the Toro is 11.5 mph on the 74926 model. Looking for some feedback from users of these mowers and what they like or dislike about them. What model would you buy? Thanks in advance for the feedback/help!

 

[tundraman]

If you go with the Toro get the 35 Kohler BB, you will need the power if bagging. Toro has a much better ride than the Deere and mine cuts ok. Scag cuts better. No worries on the Parkers as they will probably outlast the Kohler BB.

 

[TallGrassShort]

A few comments:
The Kohler BB is 34hp, not 35hp. If you plan to do mostly bagging with this unit, then the BB could be justified. But the engine on the 74926 is fine for a 60" deck.
The Parker UHTs had some production issues in the recent past, but those have been addressed, and dealers are doing a good job of making it right for any issues on older units.
Lastly, the 6000 Series units handle so much better than what you might remember from an old 550 unit.

 

[PJC15]

Not really a bad choice with either. The Toro will be much more comfortable than the Deere as I have had multiple deere's.

 

[whammer33024]

i see you're not far from me. this is my own personal opinion, but after having owned a couple toros i will never buy another one unless they redesign their deck. had major problems with buildup and clumping no matter what i tried.

i now own a deere z950m and couldn't be happier. sure, the ride isn't the best, but you won't beat the quality of cut and that's the most important thing to me

 

[PJC15]

What I have experienced with both is completely different types of cut. I do agree that the Deere clumps less, but the clippings are much larger which isn't acceptable for me on my accounts and would have to double cut them too. I ran the gators and it did help a bit. Striping and better finish go to the Toro though. I got a good bit of seat time with the Toro, Exmark and various deer's that Ive owned and the Toro seemed to clump the worst out of the 3 but I never played with the baffle adjustments either on them. Im sort of a fanatic about my striping and I could never get my deer's to stripe like a red machine unless I made multiple passes.

 

[whammer33024]

What I have experienced with both is completely different types of cut. I do agree that the Deere clumps less, but the clippings are much larger which isn't acceptable for me on my accounts and would have to double cut them too. I ran the gators and it did help a bit. Striping and better finish go to the Toro though. I got a good bit of seat time with the Toro, Exmark and various deer's that Ive owned and the Toro seemed to clump the worst out of the 3 but I never played with the baffle adjustments either on them. Im sort of a fanatic about my striping and I could never get my deer's to stripe like a red machine unless I made multiple passes.

really? that's not my experience at all. weird how people can have different experiences like that. i will agree that my deere did leave longer clippings until i put G5 blades on and now they disappear. not calling you a liar or anything so i hope you don't take it that way

 

[Ridin' Green]

really? that's not my experience at all. weird how people can have different experiences like that. i will agree that my deere did leave longer clippings until i put G5 blades on and now they disappear. not calling you a liar or anything so i hope you don't take it that way

Not my experience either. I haven't owned a Toro, but have quite a bit of seat time on one. They don't ride that much better than the JD if you have a suspension seat or the suspension seat insert kit, and you can actually mount an Exmark seat on a JD if you want to....the top of the line seat on the Lazer. Get some pneumatic front tires on the JD and about 75% of the harsh ride disappears.

The 7 Iron cuts every bit as cleanly as any Toro ever made IME, and will stripe just as well when set up correctly for pitch. Also, I have never had too much issue from the 7 Iron with long clippings unless a lawn was really overgrown, and in that case, any brand of deck will require a double or maybe even triple cut.

I'll take a deck that allows cutting in damp or wet conditions every time over a clumping machine. No more profit in double cutting in the wet to get rid of clumps than there is to get rid of long clippings, and most of us have to cut in the wet or damp every day whether from rain or heavy dew, at least for the main part of the year when the grass grows best or on well irrigated lawns.

 

[Brules]

If bagging, debris size is moot point.

 

[Laner]

Great feedback! Thank you! I really like the Turbo Force deck on the Toro. Have always left the baffle wide open and get a very good cut even in wet and tall grass. I don't have much experience with the 7 Iron deck other than a couple years ago when I demoed a unit for a couple hours. The grass was already dry and was late summer/early Fall, so the grass wasn't real long. I like my deere tractors, but they have some deck tilt issues on side hills that make for an uneven cut.

 

[Ridin' Green]

Great feedback! Thank you! I really like the Turbo Force deck on the Toro. Have always left the baffle wide open and get a very good cut even in wet and tall grass. I don't have much experience with the 7 Iron deck other than a couple years ago when I demoed a unit for a couple hours. The grass was already dry and was late summer/early Fall, so the grass wasn't real long. I like my deere tractors, but they have some deck tilt issues on side hills that make for an uneven cut.

Not on their ZTR's. I've been running them a long time now and I have never had any issues there. Just look at the way the deck is hung from them and you can see why there should never be an issue with tilt. Especially so if you use the gauge wheels as they are designed, and I do.

 

[tundraman]

A few comments:
The Kohler BB is 34hp, not 35hp. If you plan to do mostly bagging with this unit, then the BB could be justified. But the engine on the 74926 is fine for a 60" deck.
The Parker UHTs had some production issues in the recent past, but those have been addressed, and dealers are doing a good job of making it right for any issues on older units.
Lastly, the 6000 Series units handle so much better than what you might remember from an old 550 unit.

I talked with the engineer who redesigned the BB Kohler. It is now 35hp. The 980 is 38hp. You may want to attend the GIE and learn something.ttps://power.kohler.com/na-en/engines/product/command-pro-efi-ecv940

 

[Laner]

Not on their ZTR's. I've been running them a long time now and I have never had any issues there. Just look at the way the deck is hung from them and you can see why there should never be an issue with tilt. Especially so if you use the gauge wheels as they are designed, and I do.

I know the decks are hung differently on the zero turns vs. the tractors. We have used JD tractors since 2001, just noticed the tilt issue with the latest X739 tractors with the 60" HC decks. I have talked to other guys that run these tractors that have the same issue. Some have even got deere to switch their new deck to a previous model deck to solve the tilt issue.
Right now, I am leaning toward the 950R mower. I think the 950M or 960M would be a good machine, but have a guy that has some knee trouble and thinking that lifting the deck by foot pedal may be an issue. Looks like the R series run different hydros for a faster speed. I would think they are larger capacity to run cooler?

 

[Ridin' Green]

I know the decks are hung differently on the zero turns vs. the tractors. We have used JD tractors since 2001, just noticed the tilt issue with the latest X739 tractors with the 60" HC decks. I have talked to other guys that run these tractors that have the same issue. Some have even got deere to switch their new deck to a previous model deck to solve the tilt issue.
Right now, I am leaning toward the 950R mower. I think the 950M or 960M would be a good machine, but have a guy that has some knee trouble and thinking that lifting the deck by foot pedal may be an issue. Looks like the R series run different hydros for a faster speed. I would think they are larger capacity to run cooler?

I guess i didn't realize you were referring to the tractors when you mentioned the deck tilt. I have never had that with any of the 2 dozen or so JD tractors I have ran, but then, as you mentioned, it appears to be something quite new on the most recent machines. That is something JD needs to take care of quickly.

No, same hydros, different gearing inside to allow for faster top speed. The R models have the cross porting feature that does make them run cooler for side hill mowing. I have ran a Z960A with the C&C package, and at first, i didn't care for the sticks, but got used to them quickly, and I have to say, they are actually pretty comfortable, but I still didn't care for the deck lift button. The quick PTO kill button on the other stick is a feature that could potentially come in handy some day. Ideally, they would offer both the electric and foot pedal features so that you can choose to use the one that suits your needs best at any moment. I like being able to feather the deck with more control and range that what is possible with the electric button, and I don't like the fact that it is simply an up or down button. BTW- you can adjust the spring tension on the deck pedal quite a bit if your guy has knee issues. The only thing you want to avoid is taking so much weight off the deck that it tries to float when hitting bumps etc, or worse pop up to the top and stay there.

 

[Jmartinps1]

Save your money and buy the 930 m take carb off and replace throttle shaft with one for a fx850 or just use a dremel them you'll have a 950 for $30 more than a 930

 

[RBK]

I like my deere tractors, but they have some deck tilt issues on side hills that make for an uneven cut.

Hey Laner I was just looking at a 739. How would you describe the not even cut? Is one side lower or higher or is it not even through the cut? And I was also wondering how they bag in the spring and fall and what the QOC is like on that high capacity deck. I have a few side hills on my properties. Thanks

 

[TallGrassShort]

I talked with the engineer who redesigned the BB Kohler. It is now 35hp. The 980 is 38hp. You may want to attend the GIE and learn something.ttps://power.kohler.com/na-en/engines/product/command-pro-efi-ecv940

Late response, but sorry no. The ECV940 used on the Toro 74946, which is what I was talking about, is rated at 34 hp in the Toro application.

The 35hp rating on Kohler's website is based off of SAE J1940 GROSS ratings. Which uses SAE J1995 testing parameters. Basically, put the engine on a bench, remove the muffler and air cleaner, then see how much it can make.

Here's Toro's website for the model. Feel free to see what they rate it at in the unit...

https://www.toro.com/en/professiona...eries-60-34-hp-999cc-horizon-technology-74946

 

[Ridin' Green]

Late response, but sorry no. The ECV940 used on the Toro 74946, which is what I was talking about, is rated at 34 hp in the Toro application.

The 35hp rating on Kohler's website is based off of SAE J1940 GROSS ratings. Which uses SAE J1995 testing parameters. Basically, put the engine on a bench, remove the muffler and air cleaner, then see how much it can make.

Here's Toro's website for the model. Feel free to see what they rate it at in the unit...

https://www.toro.com/en/professiona...eries-60-34-hp-999cc-horizon-technology-74946

Tundraman is right in that he 34 (previously) is now rated at 35. They are the same exact engine with minor modifications done to make the rating change in gross power.

What Toro shows is the engines that they are using up from their existing inventory that were labeled as 34 that they bought in bulk back when the ECV940 was rated at 34. A year or two back they were slightly redesigned and are now rated at 35 HP. When Toro runs out of existing inventory and buys a new supply, their engine rating will change on their website as well when they update it.

Both versions were rated using the exact same system and in the same way. Both are/were actually 31. 9 true HP if you actually look at kohler's own spec sheets.

ModelCommand PRO EFI ECV940
HP (kW) 135(26.1)
Displacement (cc)61 (999)
Bore in (mm)3.5 (90)
Stroke in (mm)3.1 (78.5)
Gross Torque ft lbs (Nm) 150.9 (69)
Compression Ratio8.8:1
Dry Weight lbs (kg)127 (57)
Oil Capacity US qts (L)2.1 (2)
LubricationFull pressure w/full-flow filter
Dimensions LxWxH (in)*25.2 x 19 x 18.5
Backpressure Limit 240
Certified Power HP (kW)3 31.9 (23.8)
Certified RPM3600

 

[TallGrassShort]

What Toro shows is the engines that they are using up from their existing inventory that were labeled as 34 that they bought in bulk back when the ECV940 was rated at 34.

No, Toro won't. If you think a manufacturer keeps "years" worth of engines in a warehouse for production, you are delusional. During the prime build season Toro holds new engines in inventory for about a week before they are built into units and shipped out of the factory.

But even more damning, for the MY'18 season Toro and Exmark changed the electrical connections on all their EFI engines. Necessitating changed engine specs and new engine part numbers. I suppose your next argument is that many years ago Toro decided to warehouse engines they weren't even using at the time.

But since I don't have a practical way to prove it to you, the next time you are at a Toro dealership, look at the EPA certification sticker on any engine. Per federal law the engine must be labelled with the year it is registered with the EPA. It should be easy for you to find a 2018 unit with an old engine if what you say is true...

And for what it is worth there have been no internal changes to the engine, in the last couple of years, that has resorted in any increase in horsepower.

 

[Ridin' Green]

Keep drinking the kool aid if you want to, but what I posted is right on the money. I don't think it. I know it.

BTW- yes, many manu's buy bulk shipments so they can get the best deal possible and yes, they can have up to three years worth of inventory to use up. Learn what you are talking about before trying to berate anyone else. Wiring harnesses mean nothing. Wiring can be changed in house to match up to what a certain manu decides to change in their particular production models.

If YOU think that Kohler is making a 34 just for Toro, YOU are delusional. Their own website shows the 33 on the smaller cc block, the 35 and the 38.....only. I never said the 34 was changed internally, just that changes/modifications were made to it. The 34 was modified as already mentioned and is now rated by them at 35. I posted the current specs. You can argue with them all you want, but you'll be wrong and make yourself look bad at the same time.

Bottom line, they are both the same basic engine, with some minor mods made and a slight rating change, but both are actually 31.9 HP.