Toro Grandstands are falling behind the competition

Discussion in 'Lawn Mowing Equipment' started by 4 seasons lawn&land, Mar 8, 2014.

  1. 4 seasons lawn&land

    4 seasons lawn&land LawnSite Gold Member
    from NY
    Messages: 3,613

    I would like to get a stander at some point. And I have Toro ztrs but the grandstands 8mph isn't fast enough. It's been the same since they came out and all the other guys are up around 11mph now.
  2. Jaybrown

    Jaybrown LawnSite Bronze Member
    Messages: 1,160

    I agree the should be around 13 mph All ztrs for that matter. The wright ZK does 13.5 mph
  3. TPendagast

    TPendagast LawnSite Fanatic
    Messages: 9,652

    The wright ZK is specifically designed to replace/compete with a ZTR.
    the initials ZK stand for "Z Killer"

    the stand on market is designed to fill a niche between riders and walk behinds, not replace riders. If you want 13 mph, buy a rider.

    You're trying to get a machine that will do everything everywhere, and that does't exist.

    The 8 mph gives more stability and control where the stand on mower rules… this design's draw back is it's not as fast in the open.

    Toro doesn't want to replace their more expensive Zmaster with a less expensive grandstand, that wouldn't be good business sense.

    Also the grandstand would end up being more expensive.

    So for price, purpose and market share, thats why the grandstand is where it is.

    Which other stand on mowers are cooking along at 11 mph?

    I still see several Zs that only make 8.5 and 9
  4. pugs

    pugs LawnSite Gold Member
    Messages: 3,024

    Standons really make up the time getting around obstacles. Our shop and area has alot of obstacles. I can mow it with a 60" Bobcat ProCat in the same amount of time as a 52" Wright Stander and this was true before the Standers got a little faster. Either machine is going to take 45-50 minutes. Old JD 420 60" deck took 1:45 or so.

    Now yes if you had an open 5 acres to mow the Bobcat would win. But with lots of buildings/trees/other obstacles the Stander is the way to go.
  5. CreativeLawncareSolutions

    CreativeLawncareSolutions LawnSite Silver Member
    Messages: 2,017

    Everyone is in such a hurry. Running around like fools. It's comical to sit back and watch, really.
  6. TPendagast

    TPendagast LawnSite Fanatic
    Messages: 9,652

    that and with one hand you see people say "The Zs don't go as fast as the mfg says and you can't get up to full speed on them on most lawns"

    and on the other hand you have people wanting standers to go just as fast as the paperwork says Zs can, but if the Zs can't really go that fast on most lawns, especially those standers were designed for, why are we caring if the stander can go that fast if you can't use it anyway?

    Kind of a conundrum.
  7. StockmanLawnscape

    StockmanLawnscape LawnSite Member
    Messages: 131

    Gonna have to disagree. A stander is not meant to replace a rider. As others are saying, a stander will shine around tight spaces, obstacles, and on hills. Our guys hardly ever operate at "top speed" anyways. We would much rather have them go at a steady pace to make sure things are done correctly, instead of flying around like crazy. In turn, we make sure to price our properties at a point that can keep us profitable with this method.

    Do you really think you'll be going across any significant hill at 13mph? Not happening. We just bought two new Grandstands for this year because we like them so much. We also just bought 2 Toro Z's too, because each have their place.
  8. 4 seasons lawn&land

    4 seasons lawn&land LawnSite Gold Member
    from NY
    Messages: 3,613

    We'll I have actually used a grandstand, regardless of what it's rated for or what it's actual speed is, either way it was too slow. My z master riders, regardless of ratings, or actual speed, they are fast enough. So bottom line, I want a stander that is faster and no that does not mean I want another rider. What it does mean is I would have to buy a scag or wright even though toro is my brand. If they work for you, that's great. They wouldn't work for me. And to the guys sitting back laughing at my hustling. Let me buy you a lawn chair and a cold beverage. If everyone wanted to work like me then there would be no work left.
  9. larryinalabama

    larryinalabama LawnSite Fanatic
    Messages: 19,000

    I like my Grandstand!
  10. TPendagast

    TPendagast LawnSite Fanatic
    Messages: 9,652

    Dude…. mowing fast doesn't mean you work harder than someone else.

    What everyone is saying is that you can't always go fast/top speed and the stander is made for most of those areas where you really can't to begin with, so extra speed on a stander is…. superfluous.

    Wright made the ZK because they are, primarily a stander company….sure they have a sit down rider, but it's not their "thing" so they made a stander to compete the the likes of a hustler super z.

    It's a fine machine indeed, but it doesn't really shine doing what the stand on market was designed to do.
    To be honest all they really are is a different approach at a walk behind with a velke and they are superior in almost every way.

    I used to run some standers, I won a 32" wright stander sport and purchased a few others used.
    I ran them on small neighborhood lawns.
    this was before wright had the 'get up and go' they have now.

    While more speed would have been great for transporting down the road to the next job, if they had more speed on the lawns the size of what we were cutting, we would have had more ruts, wheel spins and someone in a flower bed once a week.

    Even then I had more walk behinds with velkes then standers (because I found a bunch of them cheap….everyone was dumping them for riders)
    and…again, more speed would have been nice for between the lawns.

    But back to Scag Vrides (11 mph) and Wright ZKs (13 mph)
    I raced a Vride I demoed with my Ferris Evolution.
    The Ferris is supposed to go 10mph (something I seriously doubt) and the Vride is supposed to go 11….the Vride barely edged out the ferris over a stupid long distance and it was so barely noticeable we held a conversation (albeit a shouting one) the entire length of the race (several city blocks).

    So I wouldn't go jumping brands for all this assumed extra speed.

    From what I've read on the here, the ZK is an awesome machine no doubt, but it's not going to be as handy in the tight difficult terrain as your grandstand and it's other wright brothers, because it's essentially a rider that you stand on, and not a true stander (wright has other models for that)

    So I don't think it's fair to say Toro is falling behind anything, they are simply filling the niche with their grandstand it is intended to fill, and if you have different needs, they have different machines for those needs.

    The Vride is not a substantially faster or better mower than the Grandstand/Vantage. It is a touch faster…but it doesn't blow back any hairdos.

    If you want to cut wide open areas, and you want to stand doing….heck ya man, buy a ZK, I would!

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