Toro verses Honda

Discussion in 'Lawn Mowing' started by mowranger, Oct 15, 2008.

  1. mowranger

    mowranger LawnSite Member
    from ms
    Messages: 80

    Hey guys,
    Just wanted to vent my frustration in regards to a issue with 10 out of 10 Toro 22195 21" 2008 mowers I purchased this year. I took pics of the control plates on the side of the engines where the breather box bolts to it. As you can see it is cracking out the plate the same way on every one of them. The way I found out early this year was the breather boxes broke at the neck which allowed dust and grass to go directly into the engines, lets just say the ones still running use 22 oz of oil a day!!

    I ran the 22167's with zero problems, they had Honda engines on them, the22195 has a different Honda engine.

    I use a Magna Matic blade sharpener and balancer to sharpen and balance my blades and sharpen them at least once a week.

    Now the fun part, Toro said it was not their problem that it is Honda's problem! Honda said they do not have any issue with this engine that it is something to do with the way Toro set it up on the mower.

    Anybody else have this problem with this mower?
    What to do?





  2. Grits

    Grits LawnSite Silver Member
    from Florida
    Messages: 2,994

    Toro need to take care of you. Don't take no for an answer.
  3. saw man

    saw man LawnSite Bronze Member
    from utah
    Messages: 1,037

    What does Toro have to do with it?

    That Honda engine has a 1 year comm. warranty, should be fixed.

    Looks like you are putting some weight on that filter box though! I think thats the cause of your problem.
  4. mowranger

    mowranger LawnSite Member
    from ms
    Messages: 80

    Its more then one engine, Honda said it has to be some kind of vibration caused by the blade stiffener.
  5. dishboy

    dishboy LawnSite Fanatic
    from zone 6
    Messages: 6,178

    Ask toro what address they want you to list on your small claims suits.
  6. saw man

    saw man LawnSite Bronze Member
    from utah
    Messages: 1,037

    Again, Toro has nothing to do with Honda warranty!
  7. saw man

    saw man LawnSite Bronze Member
    from utah
    Messages: 1,037

    I have not seen this issue with the old Honda engine. The machine is no different other than a few engine cosmetics. The airfilter housing is redesigned an it could put more pressure at that point (it is attached to that control bracket) when weight is applied.

    Maybe I am wrong, I just dont see it being a blade issue. Do you have guys using these as step stool to get to other equipment? (just an idea)
  8. topsites

    topsites LawnSite Fanatic
    Messages: 21,653

    The Toro warranty specifications state as follows:

    What does my warranty cover?
    The Toro Company promises to repair any Toro consumer product at no charge if there is a defect in materials or workmanship of the unit.
    The warranty period varies from product to product.

    So that attitude of "hot potato" won't serve them well.

    Toro built it, I don't care whose engine they chose to put on it, so long the
    machine is sold as a Toro then the problem of manufacturing defects falls on
    Toro and if Toro has a problem with their Honda engines then Toro needs to
    take that up with them and not pass it off on the customer.

    What's next, Honda claims it's not their problem since someone else made the plate?
    Who cares!

    And why is it now the customer's job to worry about these companies' internal affairs?
    It is Toro's job to take this up with Honda.

    That's about the way I'm feeling right now, not that I would expect
    the phone hooligan to act any different if I said that to them,
    maybe it is time to write a letter.
    Last edited: Oct 16, 2008
  9. mowtech

    mowtech LawnSite Senior Member
    Messages: 252

    All I can say is that it is traditional for the engine manufacturer to warranty their engines directly. Because of this they generally require a comprehensive application approval to assure that the engine is installed and used properly in the product. Having said that, Honda should stand behind their engine in the application as they should have approved it. Stating that they have not seen this problem elsewhere and therefore that it is a Toro problem is bogus. Toro does need to get after Honda to take care of their customer, but I can tell you that Honda is extremely difficult for an OEM to deal with and that they have a very arrogant attitude as they believe the Honda name is golden. Good luck.
  10. Kennedy Landscaping

    Kennedy Landscaping LawnSite Fanatic
    Messages: 5,597

    I have two Toro push mowers, the newer one is a hunk of junk, the older one, however is a beast! I would like to buy my next 21" a Honda

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