Turboforce 52" vs 60" quality of cut?

Discussion in 'Lawn Mowing' started by Shady Brook, Aug 27, 2007.

  1. Shady Brook

    Shady Brook LawnSite Bronze Member
    from Indiana
    Messages: 1,517

    I demod a 60" with Turboforce a couple years back and was pretty pleased with it's performance, and thought it did quite well in wet conditions in the fully open position. I talked up the deck to a friend who picked up a 52" rider with the Turboforce, and he was completely disapointed. He felt it clumped terribly in wet conditions, and was never happy with it. He traded his in on a Tiger with the pre Advantage deck, and thinks it and his Advantage deck Cub perform better then the 52 Turboforce.

    Is there a big difference in the cut quality between the two decks? Any info would be great. I have an opportunity to get a good buy on a 52" diesel.
    I sure would like Kubota power.

    I would think it would have to be an improvement over my Super Z's.

    Thanks fellas.
  2. Envy Lawn Service

    Envy Lawn Service LawnSite Fanatic
    Messages: 11,087

    I don't know... I too am figuring it would be an improvement over the Super Z's.

    I was just about to start a thread to 'talk up' the turbo force since it has been out a good while now and several have them.

    I've seen several advertisements on the 52" diesel for like $9,999.

    Anyways... sometimes deck size can have a big effect on performance. Although one deck size or the other is the exact platform design on a smaller/larger scale, they can be a lot different.

    These days they seem to gear the decks to acheive the same blade tip speed. This can be good or bad. If all of them are 18,500 fpm for example, the smaller deck's blades are shorter and must turn a lot higher actual RPM to acheive the same tip speed. The bigger the deck, the longer the blade and the slower the actual RPM. Either way can sometimes effect cut quality, discharge and how well the clippings are chopped.

    Also, the smaller a deck gets, the lower it's volume is. The actual area for clipping flow is less. Again, this can effect everything.

    But in the end, a lot of times people are unhappy with mowers because they just really have no clue. They don't know how to set them up, tune them in, etc... and often they forward old ways and habits on to new decks... like for instance blade styles. Like for instance maybe they were hooked on gator blades or something on their old machine, so first thing they do is slap them on the new one, when this new machine might not like them,,,, etc....
  3. Cage

    Cage LawnSite Member
    from Indiana
    Messages: 9

    I believe these decks come standared with high lift blades. In certain conditions these blades may perform differently then if they was a lower sail blade installed, especially in a lush wet cutting condition. You might be able to locate different blade options out on Toro's website. Good luck.
  4. Juan_Deere

    Juan_Deere LawnSite Senior Member
    Messages: 301

  5. Envy Lawn Service

    Envy Lawn Service LawnSite Fanatic
    Messages: 11,087

    No, you are thinking about it all backwards.

    Think of this like a bicycle... like a 20".

    You flip it upside down and crank the pedals at a fixed rpm and you get "X" mph (Ft Per Minute)

    Now you take that 20" rear tire off and replace it with a 16" tire.
    You crank the pedals the same rpm... you get less MPH (less feet per minute).

    Mower MFG's "re-gear" from deck to deck to achieve the same FPM from different length blades at the same fixed 3600 RPM engine speed. If all of the PTO pulleys are the same size at the clutch, they must use a smaller pulley on the spindle.
    (higher geared)

    This means the shorter the blade, the more RPM it must turn to achieve the same FPM.
    The length (diameter) of a shorter blade is less, therefore it's circumference is less in inches.
    So it has to rotate FASTER to achieve the same number of feet per minute.

  6. T Total Lawncare

    T Total Lawncare LawnSite Bronze Member
    Male, from The deep south
    Messages: 1,437

    I liked the geometry lesson at the end of your post which put the proverbial nail in the coffin so to speak. I might have went with something like Gump after the circle. "Thats all I got to say about that."
  7. Juan_Deere

    Juan_Deere LawnSite Senior Member
    Messages: 301

    You are right about the RPM thing. I confused blade speed with RPM. When the RPM is the same, the longer blade has to travel faster in order to cover the same distance at the tip. That is where I stopped, instead of finishing the thought.

    But you still don't have to quote the first post. :p

    FERT-TEK LawnSite Bronze Member
    Messages: 1,035

    I have a 27HP, 52" Toro Z500 with the Turbo-force deck on it although I am running Meg-Mo blades and have had no problems with discharge clumping whatsoever. I think it is an awesome deck that has the flexibility of changing the baffling to meet your conditions. Having said that, did you check or change the position of the baffle on the deck to meet the conditions you were cutting in? The deck baffel should be all the way open for wet or tall grass and closed for dry conditions. My experience is that even with wet grass and the baffle in the closed position I get a great cut. Must keep blades sharp regardless. I can not speak for the 60" decks but if what you are saying is true, the quality of cut must be amazing because I am more than happy with the cut on my 52" and would buy another if I needed a new mower.

    By the way I am selling my 52" Z500 if you know anyone interested. It is listed in the used equipment marketplace. I am out of the mowing business and strictly fert and squirt.
  9. Envy Lawn Service

    Envy Lawn Service LawnSite Fanatic
    Messages: 11,087

    No, if the SPINDLE RPM is the same, the longer blade will spin more FPM.

    The SHORTER blade has to travel faster (higher RPM) to cover the same FPM at the tip.

    Saying for instance that the gearing was a 1:1 ratio at 3600 engine RPM (PTO & SPINDLE pulleys equal size) let's just say for saying's sake that the blade spindle is spinning 3600 RPM....

    Regardless of blade length, the spindle is spinning a fixed RPM.

    But, because blade lengths do differ, their circumference differs...
    This is where feet per minute comes into play.

    You see, for example a 21" blade has a circumference of almost 66".
    Meaning the blade tip travels almost 66" per rotaton (1 RPM)

    On the other hand, a 16" blade has a circumference of around only 50".

    So at 1 rpm, the 21" blade has a tip speed of 5.5 FPM.
    At 1 rpm the 16" blade has a tip speed of 4.1 FPM.

    (these are rough/general calculations)


    In the real world, I believe the max spindle speed for a 21" blade is 3456 RPM in order to meet the safety standard of 19,000 FPM max.

    At that same spindle speed, a 16" blade would only have 14,776 FPM blade tip speed.

    This is why MFG's "regear" with different pulleys to increase spindle/blade RPM for decks with shorter blades.

    The above is calculated assuming the formula is....
    (Spindle RPM x Blade Length x pie / 12 = FPM)

    In any event, if the math is not perfect, it's close enough that it should be easy to grasp the concept.
  10. fergman

    fergman LawnSite Senior Member
    from VA
    Messages: 286

    whats the difference in the deck that toro has now and the deck they had about 4 or 5 years ago? for some reason ive completely missed all this information and i have no clue what the names of the 2 decks are or any of the differences or improvements or anything:confused:

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