vote union
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294 Posts
a union only protects the dead weight!!!!!! If you are a hard worker you don't need a union period. payup
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Unions are for employees. If your in the union, your boss is the one who pays you. Who pays you?
What you are suggesting is more collusion than union.
Pay equals quality, therefore poor quality means poor pay.
Additionally, unions represent a means to protect employees from unscrupulous employers and dangerous working conditions - not to protect income.
Bobby you are many things, yet you are not Eugene Debbs.
Pay equals quality, therefore poor quality means poor pay.
Additionally, unions represent a means to protect employees from unscrupulous employers and dangerous working conditions - not to protect income.
Bobby you are many things, yet you are not Eugene Debbs.
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4,898 Posts
Unions means fair pay, better working conditions, safer working conditions, mandatory breaks. standardized raises. WOW paid what were worth and not having to worry about low ballers, the wanna work you have to be a member old fashion union ways. The draw backs would be that I would have to pay benefits and a fair living wage to employees, But since there are no low baller doing work at 25% of what should be charged or 1970 rates that leaves me with more than enough money to cover those cost. The customers would not be jumping from company to company to save a few dollars because the price would be the same, I think that would be more a benefit than draw back. Are pricing for materials would be lower because we would be as 1 in buying power. Fert Co. wants to sell fert to 50k member companies and this is the price that we as a union are willing to pay, if they can't or won't meet it another company I'm sure would be more than interested. I don't know Bobby why anyone would want to make more money spend less money on materials not have to worry about low ballers taking accounts over a few dollars. Suppose the teamsters, uaw, usw, grocers, food handlers, etc are on to something? OH crap there the ones that actually make enough money to hire the "lawn boyz" 
Those fools and there unions
BTW - I'm in
Those fools and there unionsBTW - I'm in
Go ahead form a union, when you all have to charge $200 to mow a $40 dollar lawn to pay for the required seat belts on your mower, full medical for every employee not to mention a set $30 an hour anything over 8 hours is overtime and double pay on weekends. Then of course your union trimmer guy gets sick and then who would trim, your union mower guy would say thats against the rules. Then when OSHA showes up and shuts you down and tickets you for mowing when the tempature is over 88 degrees...I will be non union and rolling in the money because no one will pay your price.
Unions had a time and place in the USA that time is gone. And as Lawnman said they are for employees not owners...as an owner you will have to charge double for a lawn and make less money than you are now.
Unions had a time and place in the USA that time is gone. And as Lawnman said they are for employees not owners...as an owner you will have to charge double for a lawn and make less money than you are now.
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1,237 Posts
Oh yea, and how many people will look at you like an idiot when tell them, "I'm with the union, that'll be 75.00 for that lawn." And then tell you to shag off as they head over to there nearset Home Store and buy they're own lawn mower. You wanna make more money, trying earning it.bobbygedd said:
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4,898 Posts
You only mow for pppl that don't have mowers? We sell convenience and time. Time to do other things beside mow the lawn the convenience of picking up the phone and having someone else get there hands dirty and add 10% to your property value and only charge 1% of what THEY just made for Harry Home owner. You think those ppl care if you tell them its $75 ? those ppl spend more than that on lunch.HighGrass said:
Here's a different concept, You wanna make more money, try raising your rates to keep up with the cost of living. Or you still buying gas for 60 cents a gal.? :dizzy:
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4,898 Posts
Mowers already have ROPS govt. idea time and 1/2 govt. laws What does OSHA have to do with a union? if there gonna shut you down because its 88 degrees there gonna do whether your unionized or not. Mower guy gets sick trimmer guys does the work the rules are not written yet so they can be made as needed. If a union would, could be formed you would join, union would be making twice what your making nowmusselman said:
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99 Posts
I'm not going to debate whether a union does or doesn't have a place in this industry. I will say that those who oppose and have disgruntled feelings towards unions probably have never been a member of a union or a member of a good union that works for the members and not the members work for the union. I know that there is good & bad points in a union but more good for the member than bad.
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562 Posts
any business can unionize.
what benefits will a union bring to a company that is unionized? Will it bring skilled workers from other regions in times of too much work? Will it guarantee a labor pool of qualified people?
Likewise, any customer can choose whoever they want. Service levels and dollars are my limiting factors. I can provide GREAT service at a SUPER HIGH price. Or, I can provide pretty good quality at a lower price. Efficiency is the mantra for my crews.
Will a union allow a company to reduce the price? Will the union improve efficiency? Quality?
What is the benefit to me as a business owner?
what benefits will a union bring to a company that is unionized? Will it bring skilled workers from other regions in times of too much work? Will it guarantee a labor pool of qualified people?
Likewise, any customer can choose whoever they want. Service levels and dollars are my limiting factors. I can provide GREAT service at a SUPER HIGH price. Or, I can provide pretty good quality at a lower price. Efficiency is the mantra for my crews.
Will a union allow a company to reduce the price? Will the union improve efficiency? Quality?
What is the benefit to me as a business owner?
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193 Posts
I was in the Local 7318 Steel Workers union for 13 years. For my last six years I served as the Treasurer. I am now a full time Firefighter and a member of the Local 3389 International Association of Firefighters. For about three years I have been the President of my local. To say the least I believe in unions and I am quite aware of there pros and cons.
Unions are not intended to benefit the individual member. They are intended to benefit the given industry as a whole, management included, through better, safer working conditions, better understanding of workers needs and a better understanding of the needs of the industry etc. etc. No need to get into that now.
Read any post on this board and it is clear that this industry could NEVER organize. You cant even get three people to agree on whether you should edge the side walk with an edger or a string trimmer and you want to organize a lawn service labor force? Lets try getting local pricing standardized, and then think about organizing a union. :laugh:
It will NEVER, NEVER, NEVER happen in this business.
It should NEVER, NEVER, NEVER happen in this business.
Mike
Unions are not intended to benefit the individual member. They are intended to benefit the given industry as a whole, management included, through better, safer working conditions, better understanding of workers needs and a better understanding of the needs of the industry etc. etc. No need to get into that now.
Read any post on this board and it is clear that this industry could NEVER organize. You cant even get three people to agree on whether you should edge the side walk with an edger or a string trimmer and you want to organize a lawn service labor force? Lets try getting local pricing standardized, and then think about organizing a union. :laugh:
It will NEVER, NEVER, NEVER happen in this business.
It should NEVER, NEVER, NEVER happen in this business.
Mike
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201 Posts
This is a political question.
Study the real impact of unions. Study why they were formed and then the direction they have taken.
One hundred years ago they did some benefit. For some employees the union may look favorable.
As an owner you really need to do your home work. A union will take control of your business away from you.
Think real hard and study diligently before you endorse such an idea. You better perform due diligence.
Unions never make businesses more money or more profitable. They only claim to be for the employee.
At that it is more like the mafia. You must pay us money to negotiate for your benefit. You must use our insurances and vote for our ideas.
They become a lobby party. They insist you participate in their program of controlling and manipulating power positions to further their agenda. They side with who is going to benefit the head of the union. They insist that all the members help usher that person into a power position.
What about the unions who bash heads and equipment of a poor fellow trying to feed his family. Gees what is going on here?
I think that I like the idea of democracy. I dont need any one negotiating for my benefit. I dont need any one forcing me to pay dues to them so I can get a better deal. I dont need any one in my face if I do a better job and am not a member of their organization.
Sounds like organized crime, gang, secret society, cult ideology.
The idea of ownership is that one does control his destiny. Why would any one in business for them self need some one to run their business for them. Maybe you are not competent enough to run your business your self and need big brother to step in and take over.
Study the real impact of unions. Study why they were formed and then the direction they have taken.
One hundred years ago they did some benefit. For some employees the union may look favorable.
As an owner you really need to do your home work. A union will take control of your business away from you.
Think real hard and study diligently before you endorse such an idea. You better perform due diligence.
Unions never make businesses more money or more profitable. They only claim to be for the employee.
At that it is more like the mafia. You must pay us money to negotiate for your benefit. You must use our insurances and vote for our ideas.
They become a lobby party. They insist you participate in their program of controlling and manipulating power positions to further their agenda. They side with who is going to benefit the head of the union. They insist that all the members help usher that person into a power position.
What about the unions who bash heads and equipment of a poor fellow trying to feed his family. Gees what is going on here?
I think that I like the idea of democracy. I dont need any one negotiating for my benefit. I dont need any one forcing me to pay dues to them so I can get a better deal. I dont need any one in my face if I do a better job and am not a member of their organization.
Sounds like organized crime, gang, secret society, cult ideology.
The idea of ownership is that one does control his destiny. Why would any one in business for them self need some one to run their business for them. Maybe you are not competent enough to run your business your self and need big brother to step in and take over.
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201 Posts
I live in a town with several factories. Some being Whirlpool, Toyota as well as Alcoa.
I promise you that the employees do not benefit from the unions.
Because of the labor rate mandated by the unions most of the people are laid off part of the year. Many loose their job indefinitely through the name of layoffs. And still yet during the time that the unions are negotiating new contracts the workers are on strike for 1 3 years. Not good for any one.
The companies loose skilled labor and the people in the long run would have been better with out the union. They make less money due to loss time on the job than the lower wages would have provided over time through steady employment. It would have been better if they (the unions) had never been invented in the first place.
It does not take a union to set a market (Meaning the amount a buyer and a seller of services or products are willing to buy or sell the services or products.) A market is a place where people come together to buy and sell products and services. I know that a union does not need to be formed to produce a stabilizing effect in any industry.
A union is also not necessary to standardize procedures. Ever clean a stall for a horse. No unions were needed to standardize that but it is a standard procedure any way.
And as far as safety, once a new safety procedure is proven it is implemented by any industry as a general affect of the need to save on liability at the very least as well as cut the bottom line by reducing down time and training expense.
I promise you that the employees do not benefit from the unions.
Because of the labor rate mandated by the unions most of the people are laid off part of the year. Many loose their job indefinitely through the name of layoffs. And still yet during the time that the unions are negotiating new contracts the workers are on strike for 1 3 years. Not good for any one.
The companies loose skilled labor and the people in the long run would have been better with out the union. They make less money due to loss time on the job than the lower wages would have provided over time through steady employment. It would have been better if they (the unions) had never been invented in the first place.
It does not take a union to set a market (Meaning the amount a buyer and a seller of services or products are willing to buy or sell the services or products.) A market is a place where people come together to buy and sell products and services. I know that a union does not need to be formed to produce a stabilizing effect in any industry.
A union is also not necessary to standardize procedures. Ever clean a stall for a horse. No unions were needed to standardize that but it is a standard procedure any way.
And as far as safety, once a new safety procedure is proven it is implemented by any industry as a general affect of the need to save on liability at the very least as well as cut the bottom line by reducing down time and training expense.
Unions aren't necessary in this industry.
Laws and regs govern working conditions and free market rules govern prices.
You want to make more money, build your business and professionalism to the point where it is worth it.
You want ecenomy of scale purchasing power, build your business to the point where you have enough influence to effect your material acquisition ability.
You want a price standard, move to a socialized country.
Laws and regs govern working conditions and free market rules govern prices.
You want to make more money, build your business and professionalism to the point where it is worth it.
You want ecenomy of scale purchasing power, build your business to the point where you have enough influence to effect your material acquisition ability.
You want a price standard, move to a socialized country.
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4,179 Posts
I never thought of trying to unionize. It would have its pro's and con's but personally I like control over my business. I would have to double my rates (in turn loose customers to the pirate who aint doing the union thing) just to cover having to provide medical coverage and such. My helpers are paid per job so no I dont pay OT they would rather work one 12 hr day than two 6 hr days and with fuel costs I'm all for that.
I have really considered putting up flyers at dealers and an ad in the paper about setting up a local association to help teach newer guys about pricing and basically just networking with other LCO's in the area but alot of em are really sour type guys who have the biggest ego in the world because they got 2 60" scags and a 1 ton diesel and a bunch of other toys. There is alot of guys in my area who do quality work but there is also a ton of low ballers who do pretty nice work and with thier low prices alot of people are willing to go with them.
I have really considered putting up flyers at dealers and an ad in the paper about setting up a local association to help teach newer guys about pricing and basically just networking with other LCO's in the area but alot of em are really sour type guys who have the biggest ego in the world because they got 2 60" scags and a 1 ton diesel and a bunch of other toys. There is alot of guys in my area who do quality work but there is also a ton of low ballers who do pretty nice work and with thier low prices alot of people are willing to go with them.
Let's not forget the big plus of a union, is that we get to keep drunken idiots and drug addicts because we can't let them go for "diseases" like this. You fire the guy, he goes and cries to the union, before you know it, you are paying him backpay, his "rehab" costs, and have him back on the payroll, because he has the "union on his side". This happens all the time in many industries. Just ask anyone who works for GM, for instance. You can't even get those guys to do a different job if it is needed. They just say "It's not my job."
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