weed and feed? granules or liquid

Discussion in 'Pesticide & Herbicide Application' started by Christian Brothers, May 1, 2009.

  1. betmr

    betmr LawnSite Bronze Member
    Messages: 1,663

    Mr. Chistian Bros. In my State we are regulated not by the EPA, but by the NJDEP, New Jersey Department of Environmental Protection. So I would'nt say that your EPA exemptions apply for sure. Every State has the right, and is responsible for setting these standards. You need to check with your State regulatory agency before you start assuming that your Organic methods are exempt from regulations. Organics are not the fail-safe you seem to profess, in fact they can prove to be quite toxic, I give for example the dilemma facing farmers today in spreading manure, you would agree that manure is Organic ? No Argument here, just don't assume that your way, is in no way, Regulated.
  2. Kiril

    Kiril LawnSite Fanatic
    Messages: 18,334

    No argument here, but would you care to go into detail concerning this "dilemma" and these other "quite toxic" organics?
  3. betmr

    betmr LawnSite Bronze Member
    Messages: 1,663

    Well right up front, I understand that the Chesapeake Bay and a number of it's Tributaries are quite polluted with Animal waste. I come from Upstate NY, Dairy Country, Large amounts of Salmonella are showing up in the waterways up there, supposedly from Animal waste, attributed to spreading Manure on Crop fields.

    I am not going to suggest that I am an expert, so I don't know the Toxicity of all things, but I'm sure there are plenty of Organics that miss used can be quite Toxic. And as a Licensed Pesticide applicator, I feel that my handling and application of the products I use is quite safe.
  4. Kiril

    Kiril LawnSite Fanatic
    Messages: 18,334

    Like dogs?

    And this is coming from where? Large scale animal production facilities disposing their raw waste in lagoons and nearby fields. What does this have to do with using a composted manure as an organic amendment & nutrient source for landscapes, or even a raw manure at agronomic rates for crop use?

    Once again, which ones and how? I want some some reasonable examples of products typically used in landscapes, since that is what we are talking about here. You are now the second or third person who has implied (or directly stated) organics is as bad or worse than synthetics.
  5. LushGreenLawn

    LushGreenLawn LawnSite Silver Member
    Messages: 2,120

    If you apply too much of any nutrient, synthetic or organic, it will leach into waterways. In that regard, organics can be just as bad as synthetics.
  6. lilmarvin4064

    lilmarvin4064 LawnSite Senior Member
    Messages: 757

    1) concentrated acetic acid (vinegar) an organic herbicide, can cause blindness if accidentally splashed in the eyes.

    2) From my research "leaves" and other organic material left on pavement and washed into storm drains contributes to more significant Phosphate runoff in waste water than properly applied synthetic fertilizers.

    3) IMO, some of the newer synthetic herbicides, such as carfentrazone-ethyl and mesotrione are less dangerous than working with the "organic" alternatives.

    Ignorance breeds Fear; Fear breeds chemophobes!
  7. ted putnam

    ted putnam LawnSite Platinum Member
    Messages: 4,698

    In my state we have what is called a "Commercial Applicators License". Anyone in the weed control and fertilization business is required to have it.
    Commercial- something done for others for financial gain
    Applicator- A person who applies products
    License- a required permit
    They don't specify whether it is organic or not. Simply put...if you apply anything to anyones lawn other than your own for financial gain you must have the required license. Black and white- no grey area.

    Back to your original question. If I were you, I would fertilize in a dry form and my weed controls would be liquid. This will offer the best all around performance for you and your customers... whose lawns you are applying products to for financial gain...without a license :hammerhead:
  8. Christian Brothers

    Christian Brothers LawnSite Member
    Messages: 36

    despite the sarcasm in the last sentence i think this is the best professional answer i've got so far to the original post. the initial reason for a license not required in this state is because i e-mailed a professor at the university of tennessee who has a ph.d and is department coordinator of entomology and plant pathology. what he said was " you need a license if you apply a herbicide and charge a fee." then i asked him even if it was chemical free then he said, " the weed control would have to be on the EPA 25b exempt list, otherwise a license would be needed. " now i dont know if in between e-mails he forgot that i was making financial gain on it or not. so i thank you for bringing that to my attention. i'v neglected the fact that it was for financial gain so i need to check into that for this state. as for the original post answer thanks for the advice. i didnt care who used what i just needed some advice. i've found a website that has a 16-4-8 liquid fertilizer and burnout ll as a weed control. they aslso have a liquid dethatcher, aerify, and soil activator and they have a way you can mix them all together and its a one time do it everything application for in the fall when you want to dethatch, aerify, overseed, fertilize. i dont think i would mix them all together but it sounds cool anyway. what do you think about all that, professionally?
  9. betmr

    betmr LawnSite Bronze Member
    Messages: 1,663

    A liquid that makes thatch go away, and opens up the soil for oxygen penetration?? My opinion...Snake oil, but it's yours & your customers money not mine. Oh, and I don't think it was Dogs, I believe it's Chickens, Horses, and Cattle

    Personally I think you would be better received in the organic lawn care forum. Organic is nice, but I don't think it will feed the world.
  10. foreplease

    foreplease LawnSite Silver Member
    Messages: 2,062

    Agreed. Recently discussed here.

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