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Discussion in 'Fertilizer Application' started by basic lawn, Mar 11, 2003.
This is important info, you should talk more about the importance of soil.
Everything starts with the soil. The program I use is to get around some very bad soil conditions and produce healthy turf and ornamentals. There is no topsoil I would want to use as fill/final grade material here. What is sold as "topsoil" here is not much better than the crap it is covering up. To do it right would mean installing a drainage system and a sand/organic matter mix.
You are slow, it is obvious you read the whole thread. But you did not understand what was written.
After sleeping on this I feel a better explanation is in order. Look at the dates of these posts. At the same time several of us were asking for an Advanced Agronomy Forum with no luck. Lawnsite Elected to go Politically Correct with a Organic Forum. While this might of been the better business move, It sure was a slap in the face to a few of us when the Advanced Agronomy Forum was never acknowledged. Since no one on this forum at that time was pushing Organics, Lawnsite brought in a Homeowner who is a retired Government Civil Engineer and had never worked in the Green Industry as the moderator of that forum. To me this was even a Bigger slap in the face. A Homeowner telling a professional what to use just didn't wash with me. I have taught at a college part time but realize I don't know it all, No one does. BTW The Homeowner Moderator appears to be gone now and I am still here.
Further More the attitude of the Orgasmic crowd turned me off even more. I believe in the value of organics but live in the 21th century of modern technology. To expect me to give up everything I know works and switch to a all Tree Hugger program just wasn't going to happen. To paraphrase a quote by former Russia leader Nikita Khrushchev. We can't expect synthetic people to turn Organic over night. But we can encourage them to use more organics until one morning they wake to find they are Tree Huggers. Of course his quote was about Capitalism, Socialism and Communism.
As I rapidly approach by 69th Birthday I realize my mind is not as sharp as it once was. I no longer have any desire or the ability to lead a discussion of advanced agronomy or soil science. My ego wants to say I have forgotten more about this industry than most people know.
Bump Bump Bump
We look at the organic matter in soils for the soil food web, and always keep in mind what Justus von Liebig has taught us as well.
I found a few things in Ric's post that would make a soil scientist cringe. Farmer's are primarily concerned with compaction only once - -the first time a field put in production. After that, tillage is all about weed control. The no-till movement has shwn us that we don't need to plow fields to plant crops.
But, to the larger point, soil isn't mentioned much in lawn care because it's not very easy to change. It's hard enough to get customers buy aeration services sometimes, nevermind convincing them to make drainage repairs, grade adjustments, or add soil amendments.
Maybe what you're getting at is that we should be a bit more fluent in how our treatments impact and are impacted by the soil already in place. That much I agree. However, I don't think an Advanced Agronomy Forum is needed -- there's too much misinformation here. Such a forum exists today -- the C5 Turfgrass Division of the Crop Science Society of America.
Rather than trying to be a PITA, Why don't you re-read the entire post paying attention to the dates these posts were written and how they answer the original question.
If you feel you can do a better job, be my guess with my blessings. But don't pull a Kiril and post a few links and tell people to figure it out for themselves. I wasn't the only one to put forth an effort to try and help Lawnsite members. So don't knock people who are trying, help them.
Sorry, not trying to be a PITA -- that part of your post just stood out to me. I wasn't even referring much to your post. This thread has become so long and gone in so many different directions that I don't even know what the original question was!
So, I'm not totally sure what you're looking for here. I said that the Advanced Agronomy forum was not needed because something that has all that information already exists. We certainly don't need to re-invent the wheel. Additionally, encouraging LS members to get involved in their local and state turfgrass associations, PLANET, and CSSA makes the industry more well rounded, more visible, and more educated.
I'm certainly not acting anything like Kiril here. I'm saying that LS members should get plugged in with academics and other turf professionals, utilizing materials that already exist.
With all due respect Ric, I'm not going to rewrite something that has been established and written time and time again. People can read the links I provided in the other thread and sort out where the inconsistencies are in your post by themselves. I would hope they don't need me to hold their hand. If they then have any questions after reading and understanding what has been presented in the linked papers, then ask. I have no problem fielding questions from people who have done their homework, however I have no tolerance for people who expect to be spoon fed.