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My take from this thread so far is LCO pays better than other entry level jobs, and less than others. I think it's more than pay. I think people want flexible hours and be able to call out whenever they want/need to. But not lose any income doing so.

Of course that's aside from LC being seasonal and no room for growth. I did factory work, there was no room for growth there either, but they would dangle a carrot.

The share equitably thing that SAGESOVE mentioned isn't the first time I heard that. That's a concept that doesn't make any sense. I don't work this hard so other's don't have to.
Yup. Share what?
If an employee works super hard for 2+ years for almost no pay, and wants to dump $50k into the company with no promise of getting any of it back for the next 3+ years, then that person is in a position to own part of the company. They have earned the right to have a share in profits disproportionate to their contributions in labor.

Some workers understand that owners have paid their dues. But most do not understand this. They see a guy in his 30s or sometimes younger, not doing the grunt work anymore, and they think he's taking advantage of them.

Owners don't need an employee's sympathy. But it seems like young people might not understand the risk and stress and work it took to make that job of theirs possible.

Do you guys think this is also a result of an economy dominated by huge companies? All we tend to see in the media are big companies, and they keep merging and buying up the smaller ones. Kids hear about those million- and billionaire owners, and they think all jobs/companies work the same way. Regarding riches and profits. (?)
 

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I for one, who have not been able to find any new hires in over a year... Even someone to give it a shot on the mow side. I have, however, been told by a few potential workers that they wanted anywhere from $150 to $200 (usually cash) per day. Even if the day is rained out. These few people have never mowed one lawn before. My answer was a flat no. For one my driver/lead makes $150 a day roughly. A greenhorn I'm not going to pay that.
 

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I for one, who have not been able to find any new hires in over a year... Even someone to give it a shot on the mow side. I have, however, been told by a few potential workers that they wanted anywhere from $150 to $200 (usually cash) per day. Even if the day is rained out. These few people have never mowed one lawn before. My answer was a flat no. For one my driver/lead makes $150 a day roughly. A greenhorn I'm not going to pay that.
I raised wages a good amount to help with inflation but didn't feel it was smart to go too crazy even with high demand for services, because when there is a recession and things slow down, you can't take those wages back.
 

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I implore all you guys who can’t find labor to continue complaining to each other. Nobody owes you a thing. You used to exploit wage slaves who are now wise to your schtick. Sorry that you now have to do actual work instead of making the “entitled younger generation” slog it out for you. A living wage, by the way, is enough money for one person to spend ¼ of their monthly income on renting a lower-end apartment. This is not my opinion, it’s a widely accepted, long-standing metric. Anyone who works 40 hours per week should be able to have a roof over their head and not be poor. Don’t let greed rule your worldview.
 

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I implore all you guys who can’t find labor to continue complaining to each other. Nobody owes you a thing. You used to exploit wage slaves who are now wise to your schtick. Sorry that you now have to do actual work instead of making the “entitled younger generation” slog it out for you. A living wage, by the way, is enough money for one person to spend ¼ of their monthly income on renting a lower-end apartment. This is not my opinion, it’s a widely accepted, long-standing metric. Anyone who works 40 hours per week should be able to have a roof over their head and not be poor. Don’t let greed rule your worldview.
🤡🤡🤡🤡🤡🤡🤡
 

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I implore all you guys who can’t find labor to continue complaining to each other. Nobody owes you a thing. You used to exploit wage slaves who are now wise to your schtick. Sorry that you now have to do actual work instead of making the “entitled younger generation” slog it out for you. A living wage, by the way, is enough money for one person to spend ¼ of their monthly income on renting a lower-end apartment. This is not my opinion, it’s a widely accepted, long-standing metric. Anyone who works 40 hours per week should be able to have a roof over their head and not be poor. Don’t let greed rule your worldview.
What an incredibly over-simplified, crock of whiney, entitlement CRAP.
 

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Discussion Starter · #109 · (Edited)
A living wage, by the way, is enough money for one person to spend ¼ of their monthly income on renting a lower-end apartment. This is not my opinion, it’s a widely accepted, long-standing metric. Anyone who works 40 hours per week should be able to have a roof over their head and not be poor. Don’t let greed rule your worldview.
You'll have to go all the way back to WW2 to find anything close to that metric, and you will find that still falls short. While that is a good "widely accepted, long-standing metric" in theory, it also never happened -- or maybe it did in the stone age. Caveman lived rent free if they didn't get eaten by a sabre tooth.

Unskilled laborers are poor! But in the land of opportunity anyone with determination, ambition, volition, and basic common sense can absolutely prosper. Unless you have rich parents that has the means to buy your way to the top, it'll have to be earned through blood, sweat and tears. And while on that grueling journey, they'll have to improvise by living in a camper van, get room-mates, or live with mom and dad while working hard and saving.

Certainly, if you have a plan on how to increase wages for unskilled workers without contributing to yet more inflation, I'm all ears. All signs point to a massive bubble about to pop. And the jobless no-job-seekers will be in a terrible world of hurt like never seen in recent times.

I remember what it was like when there was literally no work and had to scrape by. That's where we are headed again on a much larger scale.

I am adjusting for it by not hiring help! I almost earn just as much except without all the added headaches. I'm good and I'm going to be just fine because I'm preparing and planning!

My biggest fear is the jobless no-job-seekers are going to bury themselves and ask the government to bail them out using the hard earned tax money I paid in. I don't work this hard so others don't have to. Our tax money better not be redistributed to the jobless no-job-seekers after they bury themselves! They made their bed and need to deal with it on their own volition.

I suspect the suicide rate is going to be astronomical within the next 10 years. Especially when these jobless no-job-seekers realize the hole they're in after mommy and daddy pass away and the inheritance is gone.
 

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What I see. Is the costs of living just doubled. The fun money is no longer available. People are depressed. With
All the negatives. Covid deaths, Wars, Food shortage, warnings,
You can get by living on the system. Just go to a drug dealer (doctor) The dealer will hook you up with a supplier (pharmacy)
You then become eligible to collect disability.
With Trump the people seen tax cuts.
Lowering medicine and fuel prices.
Cutting wasteful spending on globalists agendas . Leveling the playing field with imports and exports of goods.

It makes a difference between the positive and negative aspects.
In our daily lives.
Just stop. Trump printed free $ and now we are seeing the long term results. He proudly made sure his name was on the checks. I know teenagers that didn’t even have any bills that were getting $600+ a week. Imagine being 18 and Handed $1000 a week for sitting on ur arss you don’t think that affected the work force and their unrealistic expectations??
 

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Just stop. Trump printed free $ and now we are seeing the long term results. He proudly made sure his name was on the checks. I know teenagers that didn’t even have any bills that were getting $600+ a week. Imagine being 18 and Handed $1000 a week for sitting on ur arss you don’t think that affected the work force and their unrealistic expectations??
This mess is on Biden. All this would be on Trump. If not for a rigged / stolen election.
I wonder how much the 2000 mule. Was paid.
Turning in a selfie stuffing ballot boxes . That is on security cameras. & the authorities are doing nothing.
I'm hearing that people's 401k's are Down 19% . Losing money daily.
Now babies are lucky to get formula.
Report that covid will break out again come fall.
I do not see the work force getting any stronger. Anytime soon.
 

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You'll have to go all the way back to WW2 to find anything close to that metric, and you will find that still falls short. While that is a good "widely accepted, long-standing metric" in theory, it also never happened -- or maybe it did in the stone age. Caveman lived rent free if they didn't get eaten by a sabre tooth.
Agreed, The old concept of "8 hours work - 8 hours sleep - 8 hours play" was a flawed liberal labour theory that never worked the way is was pitched.

See this article on the arcane "8-8-8 Rule"....
 

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Agreed, The old concept of "8 hours work - 8 hours sleep - 8 hours play" was a flawed liberal labour theory that never worked the way is was pitched.

See this article on the arcane "8-8-8 Rule"....
Your article seems to be arguing for a shorter work day.

The 40 hour work week is outdated. If wages kept up with productivity we wouldn't be having this discussion. Some countries have moved to shorter work weeks and don't seem to be devolving into dystopian hell holes.
 

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Discussion Starter · #114 · (Edited)
Agreed, The old concept of "8 hours work - 8 hours sleep - 8 hours play" was a flawed liberal labour theory that never worked the way is was pitched.

See this article on the arcane "8-8-8 Rule"....
Could you imagine calling up a customer to tell them you're not coming because you already put in your 3 hours of work for the day. "sorry! - work life balance... gotta shut'r down for the day".
Man, having to make all those phone calls to tell people you already put in your 3 hours would add up to another 1-hour worth of work in-itself! So I would have to shut down after 2 hours of mowing....

How do I earn my $3,000 per day? Do I bill $500 to mow one yard? How does that work? I have so many questions!!!

What about equipment break downs. Clearly there won't be mechanics to help since they'll be backed up for the next 5 years due to only working 3 hours per day... so I must fit in the extra time to fix my own stuff... yet I only work 3 hours per day, how do I mow my yards?

Are customers going to be understanding that I might only mow them 4 times per year because my 3 hour work day get's eaten up so quickly? Do I work 7 days per week? I LOVE weekends off. Why stop at a 3 hour work day... can I get a 4 day weekend also? That'd be great!

I would love a world where there's no inflation and I only work 15 hours per week and still earn $15,000 per week while keeping the same buying power!!! But how?

Sure glad I read that TikTok'rs theory on why working 8 hours is outdated!! Let's do it!
 

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Could you imagine calling up a customer to tell them you're not coming because you already put in your 3 hours of work for the day. "sorry! - work life balance... gotta shut'r down for the day".
Man, having to make all those phone calls to tell people you already put in your 3 hours would add up to another 1-hour worth of work in-itself! So I would have to shut down after 2 hours of mowing....

How do I earn my $3,000 per day? Do I bill $500 to mow one yard? How does that work? I have so many questions!!!

What about equipment break downs. Clearly there won't be mechanics to help since they'll be backed up for the next 5 years due to only working 3 hours per day... so I must fit in the extra time to fix my own stuff... yet I only work 3 hours per day, how do I mow my yards?

Are customers going to be understanding that I might only mow them 4 times per year because my 3 hour work day get's eaten up so quickly? Do I work 7 days per week? I LOVE weekends off. Why stop at a 3 hour work day... can I get a 4 day weekend also? That'd be great!

I would love a world where there's no inflation and I only work 15 hours per week and still earn $15,000 per week!!! But how?

Sure glad I read that TikTok'rs theory on why working 8 hours is outdated!! Let's do it!
I mean, why not try it? You're your own boss, aren't you? What if you could make more money per job so that you didn't need to work as many jobs? Or when you did, you would be substantially rewarded? That sounds pretty good to me.
 

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Discussion Starter · #116 ·
I mean, why not try it? You're your own boss, aren't you? What if you could make more money per job so that you didn't need to work as many jobs? Or when you did, you would be substantially rewarded? That sounds pretty good to me.
Cool. I'll try selling $500 mowing. But I cannot spend extra time on the property, gotta lot of work to do in that 3 hour window!

Wish me luck!
 

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Your article seems to be arguing for a shorter work day.

The 40 hour work week is outdated. If wages kept up with productivity we wouldn't be having this discussion. Some countries have moved to shorter work weeks and don't seem to be devolving into dystopian hell holes.
The "8-8-8 hours" concept is a throwback to the 19h Century industrial revolution....
 

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Discussion Starter · #118 ·
The "8-8-8 hours" concept is a throwback to the 19h Century industrial revolution....
Prior to that people worked 72 hours per week. Sure makes 8 hours not seem so bad...

In the late 1700s, when most Americans worked on farms or in small family business, the average full-time worker spent six days - a total of 72 hours a week, - on the job.
 

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I am racking my brain around the laborer shortage.

It got me thinking when my girl and I went out to a nice steak dinner and a movie last night. The restaurant we went to had many available tables, but there was a 45 minute wait. Patrons saw all the empty tables and didn't want to wait because clearly they were understaffed on a Friday night, so they walked out. We opted to stay because we had over 3 hours to burn before our movie time.

We finally get our table and it took us another 15 minutes to get drinks. Our waitress looked overwhelmed, but she was in good spirits. She really appreciated us being so understanding and hearing our praise for her juggling all the workload.

While we sat there waiting for our food, our waitress brought us 3 drinks and rolls. It took almost 2 hours for us to get our food. The movie was about to start in 30 minutes and we haven't even got our entrée yet. Our waitress kept apologizing it was taking so long to get our food.

What I noticed as I sat there was nearly everyone was sending their steaks back. So I knew ours wasn't going to come out right. And it didn't. It came out 15 minutes before movie time and we didn't care that our steaks weren't cooked right... we already waited there 3 hours in total. We got our food boxed up and bolted to the movie (prepaid for tickets).

Same thing at the movie theatre. There was 2 people working the entire lobby on a Friday night; the first weekend a major movie was released. They were packed. People were bypassing concessions because the line was so long. The 2 workers who were working looked exhausted!

That above writeup was just a taste of what we are all experiencing as business owners. We get a few workers that really buck up and produce like superhero's, but quickly get burnt out and quit because working that hard for many is unsustainable. Rinse and repeat.

I thought it would be a good subject on this forum since many of us have helpers (some full time and some part time) who live this daily. Not only in your business, but in life; an evening out dinner and movie -to- shopping at your local box store. The laborers that do go to work are beat up and burnt out.

To get people back to work to help alleviate the pressure of the few good 'superhero' workers, what do laborers want?

Or am I asking the wrong question(s)?


A common theme I hear from people on the internet and (my thoughts):

  • pay a livable wage (my primitive thinking is you work and prove yourself - increase wages aren't given to the undeserving)
  • shorter work weeks (people want more money to work less - feels like backwards thinking)
  • people in public are rude and mean (I agree! working for the public is vicious)
  • don't treat us like slaves (It's a job. Your manager's job is to make sure you get breaktime allotment and job safety)

It seems like most laborers don't value benefits or promotions anymore. My take is they want to work less, earn more or at least earn an arbitrary livable wage, want no pressure, and don't want to be treated like "slaves".

My post could be off base and come off bitter.

What are your thoughts and opinions on the matter?
This will change dramatically when this country goes into a serious recession which is exactly what the Fed is now engineering to quash this runaway inflation. People free gov't money checks will dry up soon and demand will collapse. Almost everyone I know is cutting back on all sorts of things to save some cash. Think this is happening much faster than is making the news yet
 

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The "8-8-8 hours" concept is a throwback to the 19h Century industrial revolution....
I'm well aware where it came from, but your first article was arguing that the 8 hour work standard is obsolete, which it certainly can be depending on the industry.

People that worked from home were found to be more productive.

People that need to be physically present are not productive the entire time they are there, and it's statistically proven you will get less productivity the longer a person is at work.
 
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