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Get at least a 3/4 ton truck if you plan to do plowing and hauling heavy loads. Also if you were smart get a dump trailer, load the trailer up with mulch or stone and drop it off at the job site with a couple of guys. This way you aren't tying up a truck. You can drop them off and you can do other misc jobs or doing you lawn maintenance and then when they are done have them call you and pick them up. This is what I plan to do next season.
 
Discussion starter · #22 ·
yup, dump insert for now so i can also tow an equipment trailer too. But once i start hiring more guys, and adding another truck, a dump trailer will follow soon after
 
Dude I really hate to tell you but you're really in for a big hurt. Sorry man, you're 16 and you have more of an attitude than I had. I'm just trying to offer you some advice but you'll learn it the hard way.

Here's some simple numbers for you to crunch. Lawn maintenance pays around $60 an hour out here for a reliable, well established company. I was making $60 an hour with about $7K worth of brand new equipment, I bought nothing used. I spent more on a truck, all together I had about $18K riding around mowing lawns. Now a truck can be had for about $5K easily, I just spent a little more because my work truck was my personal truck and I wanted something fairly nice. Now, not counting the truck, $7K worth of equipment produced $60 an hour. When we got into landscaping, and we have it good for skid steer hourly rates out here, you gotta drop $20K for a new skid steer to get to about $75 an hour. You could buy used, but we're comparing new lawn equipment to new landscaping equipment. Then you have to buy a decent sized truck and a big trailer to haul it around, I won't even get into those numbers, that's just part of the biz, but actual billable hours the mowing route made me more money for less investment. Now let's see what makes more steady income for less investment. Do the math. Mowing isn't a glamor job, nobody ever said it was, but if you manage it right there's potential for big money.

I'm just having a really hard time believing that anyone is going to put big money on a kid doing landscape/hardscape jobs who isn't insured, licensed, or bonded. I can speak from experience on this one, I'VE BEEN THERE. There's so much more to the business than you can even comprehend, especially when you think you need 120 lawns to make any money. I know guys that had 60-80 lawn accounts grossing $120K a year, pretty good money for cutting grass. And getting materials delivered? Not a big deal. If you're really in the landscaping business, no fooling around BS with $3K jobs, would you rather be wasting your time driving to and from the jobsite hauling 3 yards of material at a time for $40 an hour to cover your hauling costs or staying on site with your crew billing $70 an hour for your time? You just don't have it figured out yet, management is absolutely key in this business, forget the equipment because ANYBODY can go buy the equipment. It takes someone smarter to buy the equipment and put it to use effectively, all you want to do is buy the toys and pretend you're a big shot. Efficiency and logistical decisions are what make you or break you. You bid a job and miscalculate the quantity of material. Who pays for it? Not the customer, it comes out of your net profit for the job. Do that enough and you've just worked for free. Lawn maintenance that doesn't happen, there's NEVER a negative day in the lawn business unless you toast a mower or something disasterous.

Do as you please, far be it for me to stop you. But when it's all said and done you'll be out of high school wondering why you're still in this game when you could be at college. You have a lot to learn and by god it'll teach you. I can give you credit for jumping into this stuff, I did, but you will pay a price at some point, make no mistake about that.
 
MCW, if landscaping is what you enjoy doing, then do it. Really, the only equipment you need is a shovel, a rake, and a wheelbarrow. That is much less of an investment than is required for maintenance. If you need a skid steer, rent one,,,need a mortar mixer rent one, etc. As far as the truck is concerned, the gold one seems like a good deal, I would recommend a 3/4 ton any day. The repairs are a bit more expensive, but you are better off with a 3/4 ton than you are overloading a 1/2 ton and wearing it out quicker.
Now for the dump insert, (I will play devil's advocate here) What are you really planning on using it for? Mulch? Why do you need an insert for mulch? I think that an insert could come in handy, but you really don't need one. I never had one when I worked alone. Can't you use the bed of your truck in combo with the trailer you use for your maint. equipment to haul trash etc. Also, I would not recommend a dump trailer,,,in a way that is an ignorant statement because I have never owned one of those either. I just dont think they are worth the money. If you actually need a dump trailer, then get a dump truck, that way you can pull a trailer with it to haul your skid steer, chipper, trees or whatever.
 
Really...If all your doing it Getting mulch in your Dump, Why not just use the truck as Tony Clifton Said.

I mean, Sure, you can load pavers and such into your truck, but you still have to unload them manually, and in a case like this, A dump wouldn't matter, as you can't dump pavers out the back of your truck.
 
You can make ALOT of money cutting grass!!! You do not need 120 lawns to make a killing.

MCW we are trying to help you out, since we have been there before. When i was 17 i decided to start mowing lawns. Dad rushed out and bought me a exmark 60in lazer liquid cooled (which i paided him the 9k back). When i turned i formed a legal business bought a 32k 3/4 ton and a 18 ft enclosed trailer. Now i was 18 years old going down the road with almost 50k worth of equipment cutting grass. I could of made alot more money if i had 1/3 of the overhead.

Getting deliveries is not a PITA. Even though i am only 20 all my supplier know i am the real deal. I just make a call and my supplies are there when i want them, even if i am not on the job site. The point i am trying to make is i do BIG projects and it does not make financial sense to pickup materials. I can't understand how you can think the 2600 dollor dump insert will make you money.

To many people let their egos run their business. Wait till you guys see how i am going to run my company as i grow. I am forgetting the way other hardsape design/build companies do things (equipment, trucks, labor, managment) and coming up with my own more efficent, cost effective system.

Matt
 
JMHO, dump inserts are pretty useless. Pay $2,500 so you can dump 2-3 yards of mulch. Such a little amount of material you would have to make 7 trips to do a 20 yard mulch job (typical job). At the expensive of gas, maintenance and time = useless. Last time I checked, it cost $15 to get it delivered here depending on how close they are to you. Pay them by credit card, you don't have to be there. Show up on the jobsite with your workers and get working right away. Brainless to me, but its your decision.
 
Don't get the diesel. I drove by that place and popped in to see what they had. That truck is junk. There are many reasons why it is priced the way it is. Go for the tan one. That looks like a good truck.
 
Discussion starter · #31 ·
Well boys, just got home, i bought the tan truck. Beautiful condition, paid $4500 for it. It drove great, ran great, and everything on it worked perfectly!!!! guy that sold it was really cool too! Can't wait to get it home tomarrow!!!!
 
mcwlandscaping said:
Well boys, just got home, i bought the tan truck. Beautiful condition, paid $4500 for it. It drove great, ran great, and everything on it worked perfectly!!!! guy that sold it was really cool too! Can't wait to get it home tomarrow!!!!
Good luck with your new truck mike. But if I were you I wouldn't get a dump insert. How often would you going to use it? That is 800lbs of stuff you can't get in your truck. Just go and get a dump trailer. Works like a dream. I use my buddy's 14ft ez-dumper trailer and can get alot of mulch in there and just drop the trailer of at the job site with a couple of guys and you can go do the easy work or even prep another job. A dump insert is great if you are bagging leaves or grass alot of the times, but that is the only thing I could use it for here. But hey it's your money. Good luck with the new truck.
 
Scag48 said:
Lawn maintenance that doesn't happen, there's NEVER a negative day in the lawn business unless you toast a mower or something disasterous.
Never a negative day? Anytime something breaks it becomes negative. Anytime it rains it becomes negitive, I could keep going on and on. Yes, there is less capital equipment cost in the start up of a lawn care business, yes it has GREAT cash flow, but you will never make the money in it. The money is in full service companys. The cash flow is great with lawns because it finances other aspects of the company and allows you to grow. Mike has the ambition to do this work and works very well, he just helped out on a wall job we did down the street from his house so he could learn the hardscape side of the business. Last year I spent the year building up my mow crew, this year it was my construction crew the money went towards. Yes it can be easier to have materials delivered, but not every yard can cater to you. Mike is not looking to take out loans and do all this crazy stuff, he is paying cash for his equipment and that is the way to go. We try to pay cash for most of out equipment (anything below $10k) so we dont have this small debt. There is no reason you guys should be bashing him for his decisions, hes looking for advice, not to be critisized. He is slowing building an empire IMO. You need to take steps for the future if you want to grow and he is doing it at a young age. Yes he is only doing maintence but someday will be up to the large construction projects, it does take a few years.
Yes, Scag does make many valid points but some are not very valid. You do need to build up a good deal of lawn accounts (which mike is doing just fine right now) to really get the good cash flow into the company. With one maintance account and a yard sign in front of the house, It got me 2 jobs worth $30k, 2 new lawn accounts and 2 new plow accounts.
It took my company a few years to build up the construction part of the company and now I am starting to sign work for next year. We have been booking for a very long time in hardscape and planting projects for this season and there is a good chance I will be working until january this year by the time Im done with this season (not including plowing).
There is money in EVERY aspect of this business, it just depends of how you approach it. I did not want to be just a straight mow and go company, I wanted to offer everything and that is what we do. We have doubled in size every year and I have been trying to slow growth but it just doesnt seem to help. Within the next 2-3 years we will be one of the larger construction and maintance companies in the area. We are constintly complemented on our work, work ethics and out equipment. Mike is doing just fine for his age, better than I was then. It will take time but he is building for the future, not today.
James
 
Scag48 said:
Sorry to bust your bubble man, and don't take this wrong way man because I was your age once. I'm 20 now, and I wanted all the landscaping business when I was 16, but it never happened. Focus on mowing, it's the most money you can make for a kid your age. Trust me dude, I've been there. I got into landscaping when the time was right and from there I got into excavation. At 16, the lawn maintenance is a big undertaking, don't try to take on the whole world. There's alot more money to be made in mowing for a kid your age than landscaping. Focus on getting a lawn empire built by buying the right trucks and equipment, don't get yourself spread out buying equipment for multiple divisions when you should just be focusing on one at this point. Do one thing well first, then expand from there. Once you have the lawn maintenance thing hammered down, a good customer base and a steady income, then extend yourself into other lines of service. Right now, you're trying to do it all. What happens if you get into the landscaping market and the demand goes soft? Get the lawn business extremely well structured and steady, then when you're ready to take on a new challenge you can afford to make some mistakes because they will happen, believe me on that. There will come a time where you screw something up or something comes along that is going to cost you out your @$$ and if you don't have that steady income from your lawn customers, you're outta biz bro.

Like I said, I'm not trying to shut you down because that always pissed me off too, people telling me I couldn't do stuff and I ended up proving them wrong, I'm just trying to help you out because I've been through it.
hey scag 48 no one wants to hear your worthless thoughts just answer the d@mn quistion. i bet MCW is saying the same thing in his mind but he got his truck next time do so.
 
just wondering why his comments are useless? they seem very well thought out and he has the experience good and bad to back them up.

scag found out the hard way sadly going big too fast can sink you in other posts and is just simply warning this guy as whats to come possibly.

none the less i think the dump insert is a bad idea,save that money and invest in the dump trailer its better in the long run.
 
Discussion starter · #36 ·
im waiting on the dump insert till spring so i can think it over durring the winter and see how business will pan out for next year before i make my final choice between dump insert and dump trailer.
 
murray83 said:
just wondering why his comments are useless? they seem very well thought out and he has the experience good and bad to back them up.

scag found out the hard way sadly going big too fast can sink you in other posts and is just simply warning this guy as whats to come possibly.
Well put. I thought the purpose was to share thoughts and idea. Its up to you if you want to agree or dis-agree. His comments are based on his experience. He gave an honest assessment.
 
mcwlandscaping said:
Well boys, just got home, i bought the tan truck. Beautiful condition, paid $4500 for it. It drove great, ran great, and everything on it worked perfectly!!!! guy that sold it was really cool too! Can't wait to get it home tomarrow!!!!
106,00 miles. "Unless the vehicle has a remaining factory warranty, all sales are "AS-IS" with no warranty."

Best of luck sport.
 
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