[KenH]

Sorry for putting this in the lawn care forum, I thought it deserved to be seen. This first picture is from an actual approved planted drawing. It shows the detail of a rootball being ripped in half, then planted on top of a ground stump. Lets hear all the things which could go wrong. Mind you...this is a 'professional' drawing.

 

[Movinfr8]

I know NOTHING about the subject, but.....
That don't look right!
Norm

 

[bobbygedd]

ok, please tell us, the suspense is killing me. other than the stump rotting, and causing the new tree to sink, and the fact that the new tree is already planted too deep, i dont know. we r waiting........

 

[KenH]

Originally posted by bobbygedd
ok, please tell us, the suspense is killing me. other than the stump rotting, and causing the new tree to sink, and the fact that the new tree is already planted too deep, i dont know. we r waiting........

Wow Bobby, Im surprised at you.... , Splitting the rootball!!!! Growers take great care in keeping the rootball intact, ie. burlap, twine, steel cages.....and this guy is breaking it in half..... Also, the rotting roots/stump take N from the soil.....these trees will need constant fertilization.....These are 2 other reasons off the top of my head...not to keep you in suspense....

 

[bobbygedd]

i cant see that they are splitting the rootball. ok, so, rotting stumps take n from the soil, what else, im waiting...

 

[KenH]

You are waiting for more??!!..Trees planted too deep, rootballs split, rotting stumps rob N, potential air pockets/sinkhole........you would be OK with this??

I hope I didnt post one of your drawings.

 

[bobbygedd]

so i was right! i SAID "planted too deep", and "potential of sinking" . aparently, you didnt know, you waited for me to answer, then just said what i said. any other questions, just ask. u could learn alot from a dummy. anyway, it is my understanding that a shortage in nitrogen will affect leaf growth, not root and stem growth. correct? or not

 

[KenH]

Not to hurt your feelings bobby, but a letter to the client has already been submitted , along with all the mentioned findings. I just thought you guys would enjoy this.

So you think a lack of N affects only leaf growth?? What do the leaves do?? Thats right you say, a process called photosynthesis, which provides food for the WHOLE plant.

 

[GLAN]

What about the roots left around the perimeter of the ground stump.


What happens is the remains of the stump create a saucer. Roots of the new tree are not allowed to spread out, until the roots have rotted sufficiently, this will also make the tree susceptable to being blown over. Also the saucer collects water, not allowing it to drain, root rot. Yes the break down of the wood depleats N from the soil but that is a secondary problem and can be corrected. The former reasons provided are primary failure of such a planting.

 

[bobbygedd]

thanks to you ken, today, i am wiser than yesterday, but hopefully, not as smart as tommorow. i learn something everyday. today i learned about photosynthesis, and also learned, i cannot consume three 6 packs, as i did in my younger days, without vomiting. thanks for the knowledge

 

[KenH]

I guess that explains your poor typing skills...

 

[Green in Idaho]

So what did the originator of the plan say as to why they designed it that way?

Perhaps it was necessary to put a new one in the EXACT spot as the old one? While it's not pretty, textbook, or proper planting-- depending on the many variables, I am sure it would work to some degree. It looks like maybe added top soil, so there will be some room for roots to grow.

And the old roots decaying is a natural process - there are thousands of acres of trees growing on top of old dead stumps, branches and roots. Consider a mud slide and a new seedling starting on top of old stumpage...

Breaking a ball is certainly not desirable & can damage it but it is not an absolute death. Don't you rough up the roots on a root-bound container plant? Heard of root pruning? If I had to do it, I would (carefully) and just lower the odds of it surviving. Also depends on the rest of the site- irrigation, age of landscape, etc.

I am amazed how TOUGH some trees are!

Ken, if the requirement was to replace one in the EXACT same spot what would you do? At what cost?

 

[KenH]

The originator of the plan cannot be contacted...

Quote "While it's not pretty, textbook, or proper planting--" Doesnt this answer your own questions???

I do agree with the thought that acres of trees are growing on stumps, but you are talking about forests here. A tree, as a sapling, has a much better chance of survivng on a stump then a mature tree, taken out of a nursery, and planted there. Dont you agree??

I definately break up the roots on root bound containers, but imaging taking a B/B speciman, laying it on its side, and cutting the rootball in half, and then spreading it out over an existing stump. You cannot carefully cut open the root ball, as you have no idea what is inside, ie. where the 'major' roots are located.

Would you put a guarantee on these trees if you had planted them with this method??? The client definately wasnt briefed on the possible dangers, ie now they are wondering why the plants are doing poorly.

 

[jwholden]

Was the genius who came up with that idea an LA or a fly by night trying to win a job?

Though judging by the drawing looks like one of those big headed college boys!

 

[Green in Idaho]

Well does the property owner know why it went on top of a stump? Was it to replace one in a line so it had to be there to match others? Someone has to know and someone had to have a reason for it. maybe the owner didn't want to pay to have the old stump and roots completely removed so they accepted the alternative. Again, what would you have done?

No one is going to say it's proper, but again when you HAVE to do it-- well, throw in an extra dead fish and two pennies and hope for the best.

Guarantee it?
Yes-- for twice the normal price. If the h.o. insisted on the exact location or if the design required it, I would do it and say "if you want a guarantee I have to charge you more due the increased chance of it not doing well." If the property owner wants to share the risk, normal price no guarantee.

A wild sapling on a stump vs. a healthy nursery stock with a temporary hampering of a broken root ball and a human caretaker??? I'll bet on the tree with a homeowner, some TLC, and fertilizer.

How about a bareroot planting?
I had a neighor who bought (REAL cheap) some birch from a 'grower' to find the roots had not taken to the soil at ALL. He pulled the tree out and the soil literally fell apart and the roots were pretty much buc naked! Apparently grower had just transplanted into containers as bare root. Neighor planted them (4) anyway and 5 years later they are doing fine. He asked me what I thought the chances were of them surviving-- wish I knew the term "Slim Shady" back then.

To that point, IF I had to, I would take a b&b and let all the soil fall off (gently) and then plant it on top of a stump IF necessary. I've seen worse!-- like scapers leaving wire around trunks. The drawing says 'container' though if size matters to anyone. Either case, it's pretty much the same I would say.

Here's a funny pic I call "get bent". Well I think it's funny to look at.

 

[cos]

I can't tell at all what you were getting at with that pic (it is kinda unclear). When I took a few courses at Penn State, you were to plant the top of the rooball flush with the top of the soil surface. The burlap needs to be cut back and may remain, but not on top of the root ball. The wire that you use to transport needs to be removed.

 

[Green in Idaho]

See the first 3 feet of the trunk?

Nothing to do with planting... It's Mother Nature....

It's just a picture....

 

[paponte]

When I took a few courses at Penn State, you were to plant the top of the rooball flush with the top of the soil surface.

Coming from a college, that doesn't sound all that correct to me. Doesn't it all depend on where the root flair starts? I find that sometimes I have to remove soil from the tops of the root ball, because the nursery themselves have planted the tree too deep.

Also, the burlap and wire basket should not be completely removed. It supports the root ball, and in time will break down and disintegrate.

Either way, I would never plant a tree ontop of a decaying tree stump.

 

[bobbygedd]

breaking up the root ball.... we never do, but chit happens. one time, while planting a wpg blue atlas cedar, my guy pulled the freakin thing right out of the rootball. nothing left but the tree, with a few "hairs" at the bottom. i said screw it, planted it, and its still lookin good 3 yrs later. ok, so. say the stump was in the middle of a dirt field. not much nitrogen there, are u saying it cant decay now?

 

[awm]

well chit ,ken i know it all to. i jus come on here to see,, who thinks they know something. of course they gotta be wrong huh... more than one way to do a thing bud... its the man and his experience,, thats gonna make the difference in the end..jmo
no answer necessary unless u just cant resist,, as im busy and might not get back here soon enough to catch it . later now.