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Discussion in 'Lawn Mowing Equipment' started by leftyjoe, Jun 21, 2013.

  1. puppypaws

    puppypaws LawnSite Fanatic
    Messages: 9,149


    They change the TT's speed through implementation of different size pulleys and belt lengths. They do this for the reason of not taking power that needs to be utilized for cutting purposes away from what they consider a marginal engine. They do not want to rob power from the cutting side enabling the mower to achieve another 1.5 mph on the ground speed side.

    I asked the question about why Kohler had not followed Kawasaki in labeling actual hp, he told me this fall Kohler would begin following the same labeling standard as Kawasaki. He also stated Vanguard had been using actual hp in their labeling for many years, what "many years" meant, I don't know.
  2. Ridin' Green

    Ridin' Green LawnSite Fanatic
    Male, from Michigan
    Messages: 17,080

    The Scag person was dead wrong in what they told you about the Vanguard engines being labeled for actual HP for a long time because their site says they are still labeled for HP under J1940.

    This is lifted right from the Vanguard website for the BB engines-

    Note on Power Ratings:
    The gross power rating for individual gas engine models is labeled in accordance with SAE (Society of Automotive Engineers) code J1940 (Small Engine Power & Torque
    Rating Procedure), and rating performance has been obtained and corrected in accordance with SAE J1995 (Revision 2002-05). Torque ratings are derived at 3060 RPM;
    horsepower ratings are derived at 3600 RPM. Net power values are taken with exhaust and air cleaner installed whereas gross power values are collected without these
    attachments. Actual gross engine power will be higher than net engine power and is affected by, among other things, ambient operating conditions and engine-to-engine
    variability. Given the wide array of products on which engines are placed, the gas engine may not develop the rated gross power when used in a given piece of power
    This difference is due to a variety of factors including, but not limited to, the variety of engine components (air cleaner, exhaust, charging, cooling, carburetor,
    fuel pump, etc.), application limitations, ambient operating conditions (temperature, humidity, altitude), and engine-to-engine variability. Due to manufacturing and
    capacity limitations, Briggs & Stratton may substitute an engine of higher rated power for this Series engine. 5550Y Rev - 1/16/12
    Last edited: Jun 24, 2013
  3. puppypaws

    puppypaws LawnSite Fanatic
    Messages: 9,149

    I've been aware of this for a long time as can be seen from my post in 2009. I have no idea why someone with Scag that should know this type information does not. You can look at gross versus net and see it in black and white. Enlarge and you will see where the 35 Vanguard is pulling around 31 actual hp. They all need to get on the same page.

  4. Ridin' Green

    Ridin' Green LawnSite Fanatic
    Male, from Michigan
    Messages: 17,080

    I couldn't agree with you more puppy. It really is a pantload of crap that they do this stuff still. It's one more reason why I like Kawi. At least they are being honest now, even though someone who isn't aware of the rating changes may pass them by for another brand due to the false advertising the competition is using still.
  5. LifeBack Lawns

    LifeBack Lawns LawnSite Member
    Messages: 216

    Which dealer are you speaking of? If it is the one I went to for my business, then I am sorry you went there too. I will NOT buy anything ever from that guy again. The guy will lie straight to your face and as soon as you walk out of the store and try to return something he refuses to refund or exchange for the right part (blades). He tries to sell cheap toro blades when you specifically ask for oem scag marbain. Anyways...Sorry to hear the bad news and hope things get better for you.
  6. leftyjoe

    leftyjoe LawnSite Member
    Messages: 153

    Please PM the name of the dealer you speak of.
  7. mag360

    mag360 LawnSite Silver Member
    Messages: 2,446

    It's possible to speed your machine up with a pulley/belt change to speed up the pumps but scag does it with a wheel motor change. Same pumps, same pump rpm, smaller wheel motors for the faster tigers.
  8. leftyjoe

    leftyjoe LawnSite Member
    Messages: 153

    I spoke with dealer about a possible trade-in. He said the warranty would not transfer to a new buyer. I know if I sell it to an individual the warranty doesn't transfer but I would think the dealer would be able to retain the warranty if they sell it. Does this sound right or is it more b.s?
  9. Ridin' Green

    Ridin' Green LawnSite Fanatic
    Male, from Michigan
    Messages: 17,080

    This is right off Scag's site. It doesn't seem to differentiate between private sales or dealer-

    *Effective for new machines purchased on September 1, 2009 or after. Described warranty coverage applies to commercial use. Warranty for rental use is typically 90 days. Warranty is valid for the original owner only and is non-transferable. See Limited Warranty Statement for details.
  10. Hawkshot99

    Hawkshot99 LawnSite Bronze Member
    Messages: 1,418

    It specifically says UP TO 12mph. Does not say that it does 12mph.

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