Whats last longer till it rains? Granular or liquid pre-m?

Discussion in 'Pesticide & Herbicide Application' started by sedge, Apr 20, 2008.

  1. sedge

    sedge LawnSite Fanatic
    Messages: 34,764

    Based on the 2 examples below, what one lasts longer of each example if after application, it doesn't rain for 2 or 3 weeks and there is no irrigation?

    Pendi granular fert like (PRE-M 0.86% 25-2-5 30%PPSCU) or pendi liquid. What one will have the better control and why?

    Using Dimension granular fert like (DIMENSION 0.10% 19-0-6 30%PPSCU) or Dimension in a liquid app. What one will have better control and why?

    After you have answered what one of each is best, what is better of those 2?

    The reason I'm asking is we have a very large account that does not irrigate and they have some serious sand bur issues. They want them controlled. Granular is faster and easier to apply to such a large account I am thinking, but liquid is more even. However, I am thinking that the liquid apps will break down faster in the sun without rain, then the granular ones will. I can also apply the peni or dimen with chemical only and not any fert. I am thinking of applying this every 6 weeks all summer long, to get it under control as long as I stay under the total ai for the year of each. Since we will be applying every 6 weeks, I think the over all coverage of the granular will be very good.

  2. olive123

    olive123 LawnSite Senior Member
    Messages: 500

    why not kill them off with a post first?
  3. Ric

    Ric LawnSite Fanatic
    Messages: 11,969


    Granular last for a long time in the bag. Why wouldn't it last a little longer on the Turf??? Granules require water to activate them. Morning dew will cause minor activation and some loss. But the water is also a carrier that helps distribute the Pre Emerge
  4. sedge

    sedge LawnSite Fanatic
    Messages: 34,764

    I will with what Ric mentioned before, I think it is.5oz of round up. First app will be liquid.

    Thanx for replying Ric, I was hoping you would chime in, thanx.

    Liquid lasts a long time also in the jug, but once applied, everything else being equal, what will last or do the best job over all? I think your saying you think the granular will do a better job, as it will just sit there till it rains, right?

    But will the sunlight break down the prill coated with herbicide as fast as it will with liquid?

    Is the prill just coated, or is it in the slurry when the prill was made?

    How many prills per pound with a SGN of 230?

    What would any of you guys use?

    Thanx again
  5. americanlawn

    americanlawn LawnSite Fanatic
    from midwest
    Messages: 5,956

    Liquid products breakdown whether it rains or not (solar degradation + oxidation). Coated granular products do not. Re-entry statement on most liquid pesticides = wait 'til it dries. Re-entry statement on most granular products = there isn't any. If it doesn't rain for two months, are people supposed to stay off their lawn for 2 months?:laugh:

    Bottom line: slow-release granular products last longer, but liquid app's offer more exact coverage. So there are pro's & cons. (unless you're really good at using a deflector shield).
  6. sedge

    sedge LawnSite Fanatic
    Messages: 34,764

    I agree with you if, if, if the pre-emergent is in the prill mix and not just coated on the prill. Do you or any one else know for sure?

    Any one know about how many prills of SGN 230 per pound?
  7. Marcos

    Marcos LawnSite Gold Member
    Messages: 3,720

    You are incorrect in your statement about granular SCU fertilizer combos with Pre-M (or whatever...)

    The sulfur (and "poly" coating, in the cases of the better quality products) are encapsulated around a certain % of the urea content of the bag (25%, 30%, 50%...or whatever the case may be) BEFORE any Pre-M active ingredient is impregnated onto the prills.

    And when the Pre-M (or whatever control product) is finally added later...it is added to all components of the bag, not just the "N" !

    The main reason for this... is that the "poly coating" (in other words...the "microscopically thin PLASTIC coating") used over-top of the sulfur coating simply isn't chemically compatible with the lion's share of the A.I. in most control products used in fert combos.
  8. americanlawn

    americanlawn LawnSite Fanatic
    from midwest
    Messages: 5,956

    No kidding. I threw that in cuz it's also an advantage (customer friendly). We're using a 50% SCU granular fert w/Barricade this year. It should last longer than liquid. We used LESCO's 19-0-8 w/Dimension last year and had nice results (good product).
  9. Marcos

    Marcos LawnSite Gold Member
    Messages: 3,720

    In my opinion prodiamine (often) lasts too long in the soil structure.

    If you have to go in and do some renovation work...after an extended drought situation kills out stressed-out dormant turf...you'll often find that you'll get little or no seed germination in the early fall, following a spring application of Barricade !!

    As a matter of fact...whenever I "take over" any accounts in midsummer that cancel somebody else for whatever reason...and they end up needing seeding work come end of July-early Aug...I always do some research as to what type of pre-emergent was used by the "other company" in their 1st and/or 2nd apps that year...so I don't waste my time renovating and seeding ground (likely) for no good result.

    I used to use Pre-M granular years ago.
    Now I've gone all liquid "everything" since 2002 and use Dimension WSP in split apps....but only around sidewalk and driveway perimeters, and on lawns that are too thin to prevent crabgrass / spurge / purslane, etc naturally.

    The goal I have for my customer's lawns...and one I try to help instill into every customer (billpayer's) mind...is a goal of having a lawn that is too healthy and dense to allow weeds to successfully compete.

    My philosophy is that I look for a "buy in" to this customer-vendor type of relationship of cooperation...and I'm not afraid of turning away, and referring to other local LCOS, prospects who we deem are high risk of not being longer-term clients ...or otherwise those folks who we feel we'd rather not deal with from the get-go.
  10. sedge

    sedge LawnSite Fanatic
    Messages: 34,764

    I like Barricade, but no control for sand-burs, so must be pendi or dimension.

    Thanx for the replies.

    We are dealing with bermuda, so no renovating in the fall is needed. In fact, the longer lasting the pre-m, the better.

    I gather from what you both have said, is the granular pre-m whether dimension or pendi, will last longer in the soil with granular then liquid, since they don't have irrigation and rainfall is hap hazard here in the warmer months?

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