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Who makes what?

Discussion in 'Heavy Equipment & Pavement' started by lars, Mar 29, 2004.

  1. lars

    lars LawnSite Member
    Messages: 117

    I know there has been a tremendous amount of acquisitions and mergers in the construction industy. This has resulted in equipment being made by one name and branded by another. For instance, Hitachi (not to be confused with Fiat-Hitachi) was making equipment for Deere. Now Daewooo is making a few loaders for them. And the CNH merger incudes Case, NH, O&K, and Korbelco. I bet there are a few machines that are just different colors. I believe Cat even outsourced some machines here and there.

    So who makes what? What machine is just painted a different color or has only minor differences? And should it matter? Who wont buy a machine because it is made by another company?
  2. Gravel Rat

    Gravel Rat LawnSite Fanatic
    Messages: 9,544

    With excavators Deere/Hitachi is the same the only difference the Deere runs a deere engine and of course yellow paint. I was told Case/Linkbelt are the same machine just painted a different color.

    Like a logging contractor says all brands of the machines are running the similar internals like engine hydraulic pump etc the only difference is the outside skin.

    Myself and the other contractors prefer Hitachi/Deere the old EX Hitachi machines are good they last very well digging in the tough rocky conditions. There is no soft ground to dig into here your either scraping against solid rock or digging in rocky soils and loose shattered rock. Snapping teeth off of buckets isn't uncommon a bucket also need to be hard surfaced every couple months.

    I know there are the Cat lovers out there and beleive Cat makes the best of everything which really isn't so. Cat used to be used here for everything but soon as Hitachi got a good reputation Cat lost the excavator market. You can't beat a Cat wheel loader or a Cat Dozer they do have that market sewn up you wouldn't want to buy any other brand. One of the pits tried Komatsu loaders and a dozer and both wore out too fast so they went back to Cat.

    For mini excavators I don't think you can beat a Kubota the 161 machine is a perfect machine for doing small jobs I'am amazed what a 161 can do.

    If you are in the market for a rubber tired hoe Case really has that market beat with a line up of good machines the 590 4x4s are popular here.

    The funny brands like Samsung and Hundai I don't know much about them.
  3. Tigerotor77W

    Tigerotor77W LawnSite Bronze Member
    from Germany
    Messages: 1,892

    Correct. Case excavators=Link Belt excavators. Made by Sumitomo of Japan.

    CNH has a few product lines that are similar between the Case and New Holland brands; namely, the ADTs and rollers. Just about everything else is separate.

    Hyundai and Samsung are on their own. Except Samsung was incorportated into the Volvo (current) lineup of excavators. Rumored to be really easy on fuel.

    A buncha companies are once again owned by Terex... Fermec backhoe loaders, lighting products, O&K excavators... (tough one here... I may be wrong. But I believe O&K does have a pact of some sort with Terex, at least they do according to Terex's site.)

    Um. Let's see. Cat owns a big part of ASV, maker of really nice compact track loaders.

    Deere track loaders are rebranded Liebherrs with different engines.

    JLG and Gradall merged (or something) and now they have a common line of telehandlers.

    Bobcat markets the Sambron line of telehandlers but calls them the "Versahandle"; they market Earthforce compact backhoe loaders under the Bobcat name. (How curious -- Bobcat parent Ingersoll-Rand also has these machines in its own paint job.)

    And there are definitely more. I can't think of too many right now.

    Umm, Case markets the New Holland midsize dozers with the Case paint job.
  4. lars

    lars LawnSite Member
    Messages: 117

    How does the rest of CNH work out? I know it is Case, NH, Fiat Allis, Kobelco, and O&K. I noticed that Link Belt does not make excavators any more, so your info may be a little outdated S250. Or, Link Belt may not just sell them under their own name. So, is it possible that Cases are really Kobelcos? As far as the rest of the line, it looks like NH loaders are Fiat Allis, and Case machines look similar to O&K.

    I also heard a rumor that Cat outsourced excavators to Mitsubishi for a while. Then basically the same thing was marketed under the name Yutani.

    In case anyone didn't know Cat also divested their ag line. Agco bought up the Challenger line and markets it under the Challenger name. And I believe Klass was took back the line of combines.

    S250, I also saw the changes at Bobcat now that IR took over. There are compaction products and compressors under the Bobcat name. They even brought in Club Car. IR also acquired paving gaint Blaw Knox shortly after Cat acquired Barber Greene.

    As far as Deere goes, are they making thier own ADT's or are they made by someone else? Also, does anyone know why Deere quit making the 455/555? Are skid steers and multi-terrain loaders (ASVs) taking away the market of the small track loader?

    Gravel Rat, what do the boys in BC think of Deere forestry products? I know their skidders are a little different, but are well liked by alot of people. It seems they brought alot of ideas from their ag line into their skidders.

    I think I will be interesting how some of these companies will fare in the United States over the next ten years or so. Will anyone buy equipment from Terex or Volvo? Will more of the Japanese companies be acquired? Who knows. I think everyone is capable of making a good machine, but it is the dealers that make the sales and all the "little guys" have a hard time beating dealer support and product loyalty.
  5. Tigerotor77W

    Tigerotor77W LawnSite Bronze Member
    from Germany
    Messages: 1,892

    @ Lars,

    Link-Belt definitely does make excavators -- pretty much identical to the Case ones. (www.lbxco.com) Their wheel loaders are a different story... not sure where those come in. Case excavators = Kobelco? I wouldn't be too sure. The CNH premise is to produce lower-production models alike to ensure parts commonality. For example, ADTs by Link-Belt, Case, and NH are all almost identical. Skid steers and backhoe loaders, however, are different. Case may borrow Kobelco technology moderately, but they're surely not Kobelco machines.

    Cat excavators are, I believe, designed in Japan by Mitsubishi. The old Cat 205-245D series were the first ones designed as a cooperative effort. So yes, Cats are Mits.

    About the ag line: yes, it's true. Not sure how it works out, though, because the brochures still seem to be pro-Cat. (www.agcocorp.com)

    Deere: they're using Bell ADTs
    As far as the 455 and 555 machines, I think they got rid of them because that market is comsiderably smaller than is the market for the 655CII and 755CII, which are machines manufactured by Liebherr.
  6. Tigerotor77W

    Tigerotor77W LawnSite Bronze Member
    from Germany
    Messages: 1,892

    I forgot to mention that Komatsu makes the Ditch Witch mini excavators.

    Mustang is owned by Gehl.
  7. lars

    lars LawnSite Member
    Messages: 117

    Ok, after a little boredom one day this is what I found. Anyone feel free to correct me if I'm wrong. Sorry that I'm going to repeat a few things.

    Cat excavators are made by an agreement with Mitsubishi. The same thing was marketed under the MDI / Yutani name. Cat acquired Barber Greene in the 1990's and Cat pavers are now Barber Greenes, only the color is different. Cat divested its Challenger line to AGCO. Now AGCO tractors and Hesston / New Idea forage equipment are marketed under the Challenger name. Cat combines used to be made by Class and I'm unsure to who make the current models. An interesting note are Hyundai's dozers, which seem to be a dead ringer for old Cat D3/D4/D5 dozers.

    John Deere established an allaince with Hitachi in 1988. Hitachi makes excavators for Deere in NC and mini ex's in Mexico. Deere and Hitachi use the same parts distribution network and other facilities. Deere also has the exclusive marketing rights to Bell ADT's. In 1999 Deere acquired forestry company Timberjack. Current prodcution for Deere equipment is in Dubuque, IA, and Davenport, IA. Timberjack products are made in Canada, Finland, and Sweden. Deere is also working with Daewoo to produce its largest wheel loader.

    Hitachi USA makes excavators larger than the Deere line and goes the whole way to front shovels used for mining. Hitachi also sells Euclid, which it purchased from Volvo in 1998. Hitachi also produces foresty equipment in BC.

    Volvo has acquired many companies over the years. Clark, the then owner of Michigan loaders, Austin Western graders and Euclid was acquired in 1985. Road grader manufacturer Champion was acquired in 1997, and Samsung was acquired in 1998. In 2001 Volvo bought SuperPac rollers and Scattrack skid steers. On top of that they own European companies Zettelmeyer, Pel-Job, and Ackerman.

    Terex is the owner of many different brands. The roadbuilding division includes CMI, Cedarrapids, and Bid-Well. Construcion equipment is manufacured under the Terex name as well as Fermec, Schaeff, Benford, Atlas, and Fuchs. Terex also makes cranes under the names of American, Demag and others. Terex owns Genie as well. Terex acquired O&K's mining shovel division and Unit Rig as well. Under the Terex name are ADT's, scrapers, telescopic loaders, mini ex's, backhoes, cranes, and wheel loaders.

    Komatsu acquired Dresser and Galion back in the 1970's and still markets some equipment under those name. Komatsu has 5 manufacturing facilites in the US, including one in Peoria IL, the home of Cat. Daewoo Heavy industries manufacturers wheel loaders, excavators, mini ex's and skid steers out of its Atlanta headquarters. Hyundai entered the North American market in 1989 and currently produces wheel loaders, excavators, skid steers, dozers, and forestry equipment.

    Here in Amierica, JLG did acquire Gradall (one of my favorite machines). Gehl makes Mustang, though they are not exactly the same thing. IR of course owns Bobcat, Blaw Knox, and Neal pavers (Blaw Knox's small pavers). Leeboy acquired Rosco. Wirtgen bought Hamm Compaction. Bomag bought Hyster and markets machines under the name Hypac.

    I'm still looking into CNH. More on that in the future.
  8. Tigerotor77W

    Tigerotor77W LawnSite Bronze Member
    from Germany
    Messages: 1,892

    Sounds good to me.
  9. coopers

    coopers LawnSite Bronze Member
    Messages: 1,223

    Wow, what a ton of information. I love reading this stuff!!

  10. lars

    lars LawnSite Member
    Messages: 117

    Ok, I had a little extra time, so here is what I found about CNH.

    CNH is a huge conglomerate of many companies which was created in 1999. Case, New Holland, and Kobelco are marekted in the US. Fiat-Kobelco is marketed in pretty much everywhere but North American nations. Fait Allis is sold in Mexico. Case's joint venture with Sumitomo formed Link Belt Construction. This company is different from the crane company. Link Belt is sold in Canada and Latin America. Fiat used to have an alliance with Hitachi, but that has since been dissolved.

    As far as equipment goes, it seems that everything is a similar design with only different motors. If you compare the dimensions and specs of excavators you will see only differences in engines. For example the Case CX210 (Case engine) = Link Belt LX210 (Isuzu) = Kobelco SK210 (Mitsubishi) = O&K 5.6 (Iveco) = F-K E215 (Iveco) = NH 215. Zero tail swing designs are similar as well. F-
    K's site admits that their machines are Kobelco. I'm not 100% sure, but it does seem like everything under the CNH name is the same. I'm not sure how LB's Quantum's series falls into place.

    There seems to be two designs of wheel Loaders. Case and O&K seem to be the same things. Some Case loaders are even made in Berlin. The Case 521 and O&K L15.6 are the same. The LB machines seem to be close, but not right on as far as the specs go. And of course, the engines are different. A second design is shared by NH & F-K. The design looks like a Hitachi carryover. For instance the Hitachi Lx130 (Isuzu engine) = F-K W130 (Iveco) = NH LB130.

    Case, F-K, LB, and O&K ADT's are the same thing, I'm guessing an O&K desing as well as graders, since they were making them before the merger. Case, F-K, and NH large dozers are the same. And F-K and NH backhoes and skid steers are exactly the same. I'm not sure who is producing Case's compaction equipment, trenchers and boring machines.

    If anyone can confirm or refute this, please post something. Mergers create design commonality and reduces R&D costs. It's definitely like Ford/Lincoln/Mercury. Just look at the specs and look where the manufacturing plants are, and everything seems to be the same stuff.

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