Why Immigrant Labor is a Short Term Fix with huge negative long term consequences

Discussion in 'Lawn Mowing' started by brucec32, Dec 13, 2003.

  1. brucec32

    brucec32 LawnSite Platinum Member
    Messages: 4,403

    I realize that most won't have the attention span to read this fairly long column by renowned historian and philosopher Victor David Hanson, but it's a great column on why the tactic of solving labor problems by importing it is not going to work and is eventually going to collapse.


    If you think we have a welfare state now, just wait another 20 years.
  2. fga

    fga LawnSite Silver Member
    Messages: 2,449

    I'm still reading, give me second.
  3. shearbolt

    shearbolt LawnSite Member
    Messages: 171

    50 year old Hispanics still out work 20 year old Americans.
  4. Doc Pete

    Doc Pete LawnSite Gold Member
    Messages: 3,469

    And, until they learn English they'll still be getting paid peanuts. Living at the poverty level ain't living.
  5. olderthandirt

    olderthandirt LawnSite Platinum Member
    from here
    Messages: 4,899

    So who's to blame? If they did not come they would have lived in poverty all there lives. But they chose to come here illegally and made as much in one day as they would have in a yr. What do you expect? this is America the place of oppertunity whether its good or bad legal or illegal its still an oppertunity I don't think theres anyone out there who has not had someone try to take advantage of them. I don't feel sorry for the people stay home if you can't play by the rules or don't understand them! And the way I read the article it applies to a he11 of alot of americans also!

  6. ProLandscapes

    ProLandscapes LawnSite Member
    Messages: 185


    You are full of sh*t! We have both white guys and mexicans on our crews and they all work the same. I have had both groups screw off, those guys get fired on the spot. My crews work like you wouldn't believe and they are about 50/50. It's all about how you are brought up. Pull your narrow minded head out of your a**. I agree that the immigration problem is going to come back to bite us, most definitely. Have any of you watched Americas Most Wanted lately? We already have the problem! We just have to be stronger than the problem an join together.

  7. nelbuts

    nelbuts LawnSite Bronze Member
    from SW, FL
    Messages: 1,053

    You know what really burns me?
    Is they say that no one here will do the work so they have to hire illegals. That is breaking the law, period. The ones who hire should be punished. Then wages would go up for citizens who would then do the work. Sure our stuff would cost more but let's look at it this way. Last year the Mexican work force sent $12 billion of our dollars back to their country. (their second largest source of income). That is money that could have stayed here to help our work force and with the law of return would have resulted in a net to this country of around $36 billion.

    Then we have to put the election ballots in so many different languages that it is honestly a disgrace.

    Our country was and has always been a melting pot of LEGAL immigrants who thought so much of this country that they wanted to learn our language. They wanted to obey our laws. They did not ever want a hand out. They wanted to be U.S. citizens. Now they just want money.

    I do not care how hard they work. I do not respect companies that hire them, and I certainly do not respect companies who hire the ones who do not speak English (not when every other country is learning it). And I do not respect political leaders who cater to them for a few measly votes.

    The only way to stop it is to prosecute the companies who hire them. Drop flyers all over their country tell them that if they cross our borders they will be shot. And then DO IT!

    I know that sounds harsh but just look around at your competition. Down here we have a guy and his sons who do palms for $10.00 lawns for $10-$12 dollars and is slammed full of business. Of course they work hard but they have driven down the cost county wide. Seventeen years ago I came here and lawns were $15 a cut and palms were $10. While many of us get very good money he and others like him still drive down the over all market.

    So, someday when I have more time I will tell you how I really feel!!
    MERRY CHRISTMAS!:D :drinkup:
  8. brucec32

    brucec32 LawnSite Platinum Member
    Messages: 4,403

    Very well put, Nelbuts.

    Olderthandirts, you are right, it does apply to many americans. But that has always been seen as a thing we want to try and change for the better, not import more of. The beauty of the US economy has been its upward mobility, limited only by one's desire to learn and work. That pattern of work a low paying job to pay your dues, move up to a better job, then another....it's disappearing.

    Anyone with an open mind and open eyes has to notice that there are a lot more lower class types out and about in the streets. And a whole lot more yuppie McMansions being built for those on the other end of the spectrum. The middle class is shrinking yet again.

    But, the America laborers in that predicament have one huge advantage, they speak English, and can learn language-needed skills to move up. They also are americans. Non-English speakers are going to be at a loss when competing for better jobs later in life.

    But I think Davis' unspoken point was that this trend isn't good for immigrants or Americans in the long run. The man is a historian, and is great at seeing trends in historical context. As millions of low skilled, illiterate laborers age, they become less valuable to the economy and start becoming a burden. And if their energy and hard work had been put to work solving mexico's problems over 20 or 30 years, they might have a decent country by then.
  9. JimLewis

    JimLewis LawnSite Fanatic
    Messages: 6,876

    Well, count me full of it and with my head up my arse then too. Because I wholeheartedly agree with him. Not by choice either. I really WISH I could find some white american clean-cut guys who would work even 3/4 as hard as my hispanic workers do. But over the past 8 years of owning my own business and the past 15 years of working with my family's nursery business, my experience is that 95% of the time, guys born and raised here in America (whatever their race) will get outworked by a hispanic by a longshot.

    The American guys have all sorts of social problems, family problems, problems with the law, car problems, sickness, etc. 10x more than the hispanics do. Not to mention they're just plain lazy and almost always want the easier jobs. They complain more. Demand more money. Etc. etc. etc.

    I've employed a good 20-30 american guys over the last 8 years and only one of them was worth keeping. And I still have him. The rest were worthless, stole from me, called in sick all the time, used drugs or alchohol on the job, pee'd on customer's lawns in broad daylight, you name it!

    I am sorry. I really wish it weren't true. But where I am from, if you're going to hire all american guys, you're going to have a productivity level about half of what ours is. That's a fact.
    Oh really??? And how exactly are we supposed to tell if they are illegal or not? They show me what looks like a valid driver's license (actually, I am fortunate. My best friend's a cop. So I get it checked out.), what looks like a valid immigration card, and what looks like a valid Social Security card. But I hear from my cop friend that really good fakes are easy as heck to buy in hispanic communities. So much so that even the cops around here can't even tell if they're legal or not. Even the DMV can't tell.

    So how is it, Genius, that I am supposed to tell if a guy is legal or not? I ask for the stuff that the government tells me to ask for. They provide it. What else can I do? Am I going to get the friggin' INS over here to personal inspect and fingerprint each guy I hire?

    I mean, don't get me wrong. I don't want illegals here either. I am a die hard conservative. Lock up the borders and send the illegals back. If you don't like our current policy on enforcement of borders vote for officials who will change that! But it ain't MY job to prevent them from coming over here. And it aint MY job to be an expert in whether documents are authentic or not either.
  10. Doc Pete

    Doc Pete LawnSite Gold Member
    Messages: 3,469

    Since we are both older I realize there's many issues, however as I've mentioned before we can't keep shipping jobs off shore while bringing in more laborers at the same time. It's simple math, as the supply of laborers goes up, their ability to demand more pay goes down. The USA just can't save every one, and we need to understand this.

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