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Discussion in 'Organic Lawn Care' started by rutgers1, Nov 10, 2007.

  1. Kiril

    Kiril LawnSite Fanatic
    Messages: 18,334

  2. NattyLawn

    NattyLawn LawnSite Bronze Member
    Messages: 1,643

    To try and lessen the fish smell, we add equal amounts of fish, molasses and Gro-Biotix to our bio-booster mix. The molasses and Gro-Biotix (beneficial bacteria) give it an almost apple cider like aroma. Tea, humic acid and seaweed are some other ingredients in there as well.

    As far as Gerry and Kiril, why not take this private instead of ruining good threads? Two people on opposite ends of the spectrum that can't agree or meet in the middle.
  3. Kiril

    Kiril LawnSite Fanatic
    Messages: 18,334

    :laugh: Talk about misdirection.

    Gerry, even someone with little or no understanding of the information you presented in this thread could spend 10 minutes on Wikipedia and discover how little you understand the information you present. I'm all for keeping it clean, which can be accomplished by you simply verifying you UNDERSTAND the information your presenting. If you want to construe someone pointing out the mistakes you have made as an attack, that is your problem. Get the information correct in the first place and we all could avoid your school yard insults.

    Let us explore some of Gerry's "scientific facts".

    Urea is chemically classified as an organic compound. It does not matter if it is derived via a biological process or a synthetic process, the compound formed is chemically identical. You can argue this until you are blue in the face, but at the end of the day, it will still be classified as an organic compound.

    Wikipedia: Urea
    Wikipedia: List of organic compounds

    Urea does not "typically arrive as nitrate". The initial decomposition products after application are ammonia and carbon dioxide (via hydrolysis). From ammonia (NH3) you get ammonium (NH4) (via protonation).

    Wikipedia: Ammonium

    This rates in the top 5 most ignorant statements you have made. This is basic high school chemistry.

    Wikipedia: Salt (chemistry)

    A salt, in chemistry, is defined as the product formed from the neutralization reaction of acids and bases. Salts are ionic compounds composed of cations (positively charged ions) and anions (negative ions) so that the product is electrically neutral (without a net charge).

    Does urea have an electrical charge? You bet it does (dipole moment: 4.56 p/D)
    Is urea an ionic compound? No it is not.

    Synthetic: Bosch-Meiser Urea Process
    Biological: Urea Cycle

    That means your belief that urea is a "salt" is also incorrect.
    Given your complete lack of understanding here, every following statement that is based on your definition of a "salt" is incorrect as well.

    Also your attempts to describe solubility, solvation, and water potential are way off base.

    Once again, you have amazed us at your complete lack of understanding of the information you have presented.

    I repeat, leave the science to the scientists.
  4. Gerry Miller

    Gerry Miller LawnSite Senior Member
    Messages: 504

    Everything I've posted here about urea and salt is directly from Dr. Ingham. She is the real scientist. She has credibility. Enough said.
  5. Marcos

    Marcos LawnSite Gold Member
    Messages: 3,720

    Don't waste your time with organics once the soil temps get down below 55 F in the fall. At least not in Ohio. They don't do diddley then, except cost you a lot of wasted money and time. I've found that they just wash away by the winter's rains before they're able to be activated by warmer temps in the spring, even in conjunction with fall aeration in our crummy clay-based soils south of the glacial advance line.
    Save the organics for when they count- The growing season, when the customer can see and smell that you're using organics, and for the time of year when they actually work!
  6. Smallaxe

    Smallaxe LawnSite Fanatic
    Messages: 10,082

    Doesn't the stuff just have to be available when the soil warms and the grass is actively growing? IMO the grass is doing very little at 55 degrees(soil temp) and really doesn't need high inputs of anything.
    Organic winterizer should be applied in September be ready in October/November. Conventional wisdom has it that they take about 6 weeks to get into the soil.

    I agree that if they are going to be washed away then don't do it. I still remember Chem-Lawn spreading granular fertilizer on a frozen hillside overlooking a lake.

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