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Would you take this job?

9K views 28 replies 16 participants last post by  SDLandscapes VT 
#1 ·
alright, so I was recommended by a neighbor to one of her friends to do some landscaping work. And well.... I didnt know it was this bad till I meet with the guy to give and talk about some ideas.

He bought the house about 4 years ago and now that the inside is done, he wants to start on the outside. As you can see it has been neglected for a while. He wants it all pulled out and redone. The soil is all clay and rock so I would have to dig down, remove some of the old material and replace with top soil. I am getting plant recommendations from a nursery. However in order to do some of these garden beds and put top soil in them, I would need some sort or machinery. I know how to operate a bobcat, would renting one be the best bet? or should i go with a smaller dingo walk behind digger.

Also could i just rent a roll off trailer and fill it up with soil and other material inorder to keep from going to the dump and finding a place too off load? Or i could as for a place to dump on his 30 acres.

I was thinking 60 an hour while using the bobcat + the price to rent for a day + the price to deliver and pick up in order to make the beds. I would have a worker which i would pay 12 an hour (25 plus my 60 and hour)

does this sound like a possibility? too cheep? or?

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#5 ·
Get a back hoe/loader tractor. Charge at least $150 per hr that covers your hourly rate+rental cost+materials. I think you come out better at an hour rate vs fixed rate. I couldnt guess the number of times I screwed myself over because I quoted a fixed price over an hourly rate and jobs ended up taking me longer than I thought it would.
 
#6 ·
First of all, are you sure you need to replace soil? The yard is in rough condition, but its supporting a lawn pretty well. Definitely rent a bobcat. A dingo will be too small for moving the potential amount of earth you're thinking about. Talk to a local roll off dumpster company. When I do big dirt removal jobs, they will drop off 2 15-20yd dumpsters at a time and will keep replacing them as I need. I think you'll be fine to rototil the site, then regrade it. Take a soil sample
 
#7 ·
Get a back hoe/loader tractor. Charge at least $150 per hr that covers your hourly rate+rental cost+materials. I think you come out better at an hour rate vs fixed rate. I couldnt guess the number of times I screwed myself over because I quoted a fixed price over an hourly rate and jobs ended up taking me longer than I thought it would.
so 150 an hour would cover the 1 day rental cost, delivery, and diesel along with my pay right?
 
#8 ·
First of all, are you sure you need to replace soil? The yard is in rough condition, but its supporting a lawn pretty well. Definitely rent a bobcat. A dingo will be too small for moving the potential amount of earth you're thinking about. Talk to a local roll off dumpster company. When I do big dirt removal jobs, they will drop off 2 15-20yd dumpsters at a time and will keep replacing them as I need. I think you'll be fine to rototil the site, then regrade it. Take a soil sample
about how much did you pay for your roll off?

soil has a bunch of rock in it. The costumer would prefer to have fresh healthy soil added to the gardens, he is considering leaf grow or top soil,m which ever is cheaper.
 
#9 ·
IMO $60 per hour on the Bobcat is too low. Around here $100 is pretty common. I would definitely use it over a dingo. If the customer is on 30 acres they will certainly let you dump somewhere so I wouldn't even consider renting a trailer for that. tell them they can save some money. if not, most places that deliver topsoil will haul off for you if you need it. My guy charges me $50 cash a truckload. I always use a hourly rate for jobs like this. Bid high because its likely it'll take longer than you first thought.
 
#10 ·
IMO $60 per hour on the Bobcat is too low. Around here $100 is pretty common. I would definitely use it over a dingo. If the customer is on 30 acres they will certainly let you dump somewhere so I wouldn't even consider renting a trailer for that. tell them they can save some money. if not, most places that deliver topsoil will haul off for you if you need it. My guy charges me $50 cash a truckload. I always use a hourly rate for jobs like this. Bid high because its likely it'll take longer than you first thought.
100 an hour plus the rental fees right?
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#11 ·
130 hr, with a 3 hour minimum is what i do for jobs that want an hourly rate, for the clean up, for bobcat or mini excavator work+tax and i have no rental fee, just have to put diesel in the machines and get them going but they don't take much oil changes and tires are peanuts compared to what you can make with them....
 
#12 ·
If I were you I would pass on this one. Just reading your posts it's pretty clear you are way out of your comfort zone for this type of project. You also didn't specify exactly what he wants done. Is it just one flower bed, or is it several all around the house? How many obstacles will be in your way when digging that close to the house, water lines, septic, electric etc.

There's just so much more that goes into a project like this that it's immpossible to tell you what to charge because what may cost me 3500 in equipment and materials may cost you more or less. Then you have to decide how much you want to make as a profit.
 
#13 ·
yes i would take that job, i personally would have that place cleaned out in 4 hours on my own with a bobcat and my dump trailer, and topsoil delivered and beds formed and lined with cobblestones, and just have to wait on what plants the customer wants, then those would go in and get mulched or stone put in and done. could be done in a day with 2 guys easy. depending on how big you make the beds determines how much your gonna charge and how much you will ultimately profit. i would figure you could charge 3000-4000 and have 1000 in expenses tops for 1 day rental, the roll off, plants, topsoil, mulch or stone, cobblestones.
 
#14 ·
yes i would take that job, i personally would have that place cleaned out in 4 hours on my own with a bobcat and my dump trailer, and topsoil delivered and beds formed and lined with cobblestones, and just have to wait on what plants the customer wants, then those would go in and get mulched or stone put in and done. could be done in a day with 2 guys easy. depending on how big you make the beds determines how much your gonna charge and how much you will ultimately profit. i would figure you could charge 3000-4000 and have 1000 in expenses tops for 1 day rental, the roll off, plants, topsoil, mulch or stone, cobblestones.
You also know what you are doing, makes things a little easier and a lot less expensive for your costs. But we still don't know what exactly this homeowner wants done. I will say I'm jealous of how cheap you can get stuff in CT. Just the skid steer would be 400 for the day around here, roll off 350, topsoil 300 for a triaxle and so on.
 
#17 ·
You also know what you are doing, makes things a little easier and a lot less expensive for your costs. But we still don't know what exactly this homeowner wants done. I will say I'm jealous of how cheap you can get stuff in CT. Just the skid steer would be 400 for the day around here, roll off 350, topsoil 300 for a triaxle and so on.
prices in ct aren't too far off...it depends on who you know too, i can get a triaxle of topsoil for 200 delivered, and that's 18 yards. not sure about the roll off, never needed one, but my dump trailer will hold 5 tons of material so a few trips with that the areas for the beds would be fresh, and not having to rent a skid steer is nice, mulch is 20-30 dollars a yard 30 is for the nicest 100% hemlock. that's straight from one of the distributors here in ct. that job is really cake, and having over 13 years experience helps. but yah more info is needed to accurately price this job.
 
#18 ·
so 150 an hour would cover the 1 day rental cost, delivery, and diesel along with my pay right?
No. Its just a guess estimate. You have to figure out rental costs on your end & add your hourly rate, etc. You'll only need the back hoe to prep the ground. After that, charge a lower hr rate like the $60 per hr u quoted. If client will let you dump the dirt on his property, that will save him $. I suggest using a back hoe because you can dig it out with the hoe & relocate dirt with the loader.
 
#19 ·
By the way, in the first pic, it appears that a line was installed along the side of the home and it looks like the trench wasn't compacted. I could be mistaken but thats what it looks like from the pic. If this is the case, whatever equipment you use, I would take care not to break what ever they put in the trench because the dirt look soft
 
#20 ·
alright guys, i think im going to take it. Planning on renting a bobcat or a dingo for about $180 a day. Digging up the beds (all around the house) and relocating material to another area (maybe where some erosion occurred, or if he wants to level out some of the land). Filling the garden beds with top soil and then plants and mulch.

So im thinking that this should take about 8 hours ( one day rental ) about $190 --------- $25 an hour
plus my hourly rate and my helpers rate. ---------------------------------------------------- $95 an hour
plus fuel ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------ well say $10 an hour
Plus the use of my trailer and materials ------------------------------------------------------- $30 an hour (if i even use my trailer to hull the dirt)


still not sure weither to get the dingo or the bobcat...... the small bobcat would do the same job as the dingo but the bigger bobcat would tear all the surrounding grass and everyitng up. I suppose if he wants other work done ( filling his drive way with stone then I should go with the bobcat.)
 
#21 ·
still not sure weither to get the dingo or the bobcat...... the small bobcat would do the same job as the dingo but the bigger bobcat would tear all the surrounding grass and everyitng up. I suppose if he wants other work done ( filling his drive way with stone then I should go with the bobcat.)
Bobcat or a compact TLB is what I would recommend.
I would stay away from Dingos as I think of them as niche equipment. Great for jobs that require equipment in a confined space like a water feature or sidewalk demolition. They too skid like a bobcat so it will scuff the yard at best. Then consider grubbing with a dingo: will it not be fun.

An option to explore to minimize yard damage is drive the bobcat near the house where your beds will be. Dirt furthest point and work backwards. Your helper will spread dirt for proper shape. Be aware heavy equipment and vibrations could negatively affect the wall at the stairs.

An alternative to the above is pick few as possible spots in the yard that will be designated turn spots. From each turn spot you will either straight and slight curve to the next spot or straight line to the dump point. This leaves you with less yard repair work.

Another option is rent an all wheel steer bobcat. The fancy $65,000 ones can lock the rear wheels and steer with front as if it were a tractor. That leaves compaction as the main concern which will be heavily dependent on soil moisture.

My platinum pick is a compact or subcompact TLB. Versatile, lighter, better on yards, will grub and remove stumps, and more. Yard appears fairly flat so this would be a great TLB learning experience for you. Most are 3-point hitch-able too.
 
#23 ·
I have to agree reading these post that this is going to be a learning experience. I price fixed rates for clients but I have the experience to do so. I don't think the OP has that so hourly would be better. Risk with hourly if you can't give the client at least a good idea of how long it will take. They could freak out if it takes a lot longer than they think it should.

Personally I don't believe from comments he is suited for this job as he does not seem to know exact what to do. First off a client may ask for something but as a professional you should be able to recommend the best ways to do things. First off ripping out all the soil seems VERY extreme. I have done it in extreme cases but most f the time all they need is the beds tilled and amended with compost and topsoil.

Just remember every job is your reputation, the client tells friends about the job and one friend knows little more about landscaping. He could tell your client that you should of just amended the beds. Even though you were asked by the client to rip out all the soil, all suddenly he is telling people that you didn't know what you were doing and ripped him off. The client also will not tell anyone he asked you to do something stupid. As the landscaper you are the knowledgeable professional. Not to be that jerk but I think you are way over your head on this job. It could turn out OK of course but this could just as easily be a disaster for you for even more reasons
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#24 ·
from what Ive read, this isnt the kind of work you do. So, technically, you shouldn't just "up and start" with random advice from the internet.
That would be like posting the question "how do I rebuild my corvette's engine" and spend money doing what some stranger told you to do...and expecting everything to come out great.

"I know how to operate a bobcat"
What does that mean? I can move one around the rental yard?
IF you don't know what kind of equipment you need and how to price this, you are so incredibly over your head you shouldn't go near a landscape job without mentorship/supervision.

My suggestion is find a guy who knows what he is doing, refer him the job and then shadow him, or possibly sign on to work for him on the job (helping him/his crew out) and learn the trade.

That's the best way to jump from planting a few bushes into earthwork/full scale landscaping.
 
#25 ·
I agree with the last two posts. I think you're in way over your head and I think most of the advice above (except the last two posts) isn't very good advice. Pricing jobs by the hour is always a bad idea. You should be pricing jobs - by the job. Similarly, pricing ANYTHING with some generic "by the sq. ft.", "by the yard", "by the linear ft.", "by the zone" (as with irrigation systems), or "by the fixture" (as some people do with landscape lighting systems" is always a bad way to bid work. Why? Because every job is different. Access is different. Drive time to and from the jobsite is different. Materials needed are different. One lawn may need to be heavily amended with a lot of new soil another may need only a little. Etc. Every landscaping, paver patio, irrigation, lighting job is totally different from one to another.

Your best bet is to start doing jobs like this SMALL. Then you'll learn what materials and time was needed for the job. Then take on a little larger one. Then a little larger, and so on. Start small, so you can make mistakes and it won't cost you very much if you screw up on your total bid price. Then, as you learn more, you'll learn to think of everything that is needed for every job. You'll be able to accurately predict exactly what materials you'll need, exactly how many hours it will take, exactly what other factors to consider (drive time, access to the work area, mark-up, etc.) and then you'll be set to take on jobs like this.
 
#26 ·
I have a bobcat guy we use for stuff like this look around he usually charges us a min of 300 and max of 550 for a day but he is a master of his craft we focus on planting mulching and he runs the machine what I can do on a bobcat in 10 hrs he does in 4 or 5 and I've logged thousands of hours on a skid steer I charge about 75 hr for two guys and my expenses my bobcat guys charge and he also brings his small dump truck if I need it so I would see if I can dump on his 30 acres I tell my customer plain and simple I could rent a bobcat do the dumpsters and rack up a lot of unneeded time or I can bring in my pro and knock it out and save him money I have done it both ways and I find I usually make more money focusing on planting and speed than having my guy watch me play in the machine all day I also find I'm good at figuring time with what i do everyday give me a lawn ill be within 10mins of my projected time 99% of the time ask me how long it will take to grade something with a bobcat ill be within a few hrs but I have been wrong before ask my accountant she'll tell u sometimes it looks like we picked numbers out of the phonebook lol anyway every town has that bobcat and a truck man and if u build a relationship with them it can work both ways he has got me in the door with remodelers and builders some people still ask me how the hell did u get that job and I just laugh while I see him ripping his hair out leaving sunbelt rentals trying to be everything to everyone
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