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Lynden-Jeff

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Discussion starter · #1 ·
Hey,

I have never properly understood this but I come to you fellow lawn site members for some clarification. From what I understand a truck and a trailer can have a combined GVWR of roughly 10,000 lbs. After this what do I require? I want to tow a 553 with my ram 1500 and that will put me over 10,000 lbs. I think I need my yellow safety sticker on both truck and trailer but will I also need to carry daily logs? Some clarification would be appreciated!

Cheers
Jeff
 
#2 ·
The best people to ask is someone at the department of motor vehicals. I don't know if Ontario has the National safety code for trucking. Anyhow if you keep your total combination weight at 4999kgs 1 kilogram under 5000 which you have to comply with the NSC rules.

Once your at the 5000kg 11,023lb gvw mark then the truck is classed as commercial.
 
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#3 ·
Over 10,000 you do need the yellow safety stickers, and make sure they are where they are suppose to go, they are getting sticky about that. You need logs only if you travel more then 150 miles from your base address. This is from the dodge site "When properly equipped, Dodge Ram 1500 Regular Cab 4x2 tows a hefty 4128 kg (9100 lb)." Make sure you don't go over what your truck is rated for, they are getting picky as of late. Are you registered for a CVOR #? Check with the MTO, for more info http://www.mto.gov.on.ca/english/
 
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Discussion starter · #4 ·
I belive I am not registered for a CVOR. What is it? Also where can I get the yellow safety stickers? Any MTO office? I have commercial insurance on the vehical and im towing a maximum of 8000 lbs (I have a class 3 hitch so thats its max).

Cheers
Jeff
 
#5 ·
MTO cracked down last summer on all the small and medium sized pick-ups and trailers-everyone walks away with at lease a $300 + fine.
1-no safety stickers
2-plates not licenced for the weight of your commercial vehile-they told me to check the VIN sticker for my allowable weight and I should have known that?
3-daily circle check-regardless of how far you are from home, any road-empty or
or full your GVW is allows on you-
4-CVOR - not being registered is a 300$ fine- they don't like writing all of your info- once your registered they track your fines and record-its free to register.
5- over 10,000 LBS. you need a D licence-that will b a bigger fine-
6-better not have any dust blowing around-that will b an unsafe load fine!

they must have at least 300-400 items listed on the back of the fine they gave me

please check with the MTO and local truck drivers or any landscape guy who looks completly stressed while driving--he'll know
take it easy-or they'll help you--Ontario MTO
 
#6 ·
Landscape Ontario link to whats needed plus links to the MTO site
http://www.horttrades.com/displaynews.php?n=362

read them all to get it straight:hammerhead: :confused: :dizzy:

For 8000lbs on trailer you will need a CVOR and annual sticker/cert.

if trailer GVWR exceeds 4500kg you will need a class A licence

CVOR requires daily log and circle check

if your trailer "scaled" axle(s) weight is below 6100lbs it does get added to the trucks GVWR weight...this applies for whether you need a CVOR.
Meaning if you carry less than 6100lbs on the trailer axles it will not be added to the GVWR of the truck...important for 3/4 and 1/2 ton trucks.

if the truck and trailer GVWR's exceed 4500kg's you need the annual cert/sticker
if the truck GVWR exceeds 4500kg you need the CVOR also
if you tow more than 6100lbs you will need the CVOR
:dizzy:
 
#7 ·
Optimum Lawn said:
if your trailer "scaled" axle(s) weight is below 6100lbs it does get added to the trucks GVWR weight...this applies for whether you need a CVOR.
Meaning if you carry less than 6100lbs on the trailer axles it will not be added to the GVWR of the truck...important for 3/4 and 1/2 ton trucks.

should read......
if your trailer "scaled" axle(s) weight is below 6100lbs it does NOT get added to the trucks Gross weight or Registered Gross Weight...this applies for whether you need a CVOR.
Meaning if you carry less than 6100lbs on the trailer axles it will not be added to the Gross weight or RGW of the truck...important for 3/4 and 1/2 ton trucks.
Click to expand...
 
Discussion starter · #8 ·
Ok so lets get this straight.

A. I should get a CVOR anyways because its free. Does this make it Mandatory to do daily circle checks?

B. For example lets say I tow with a ram 1500 (which I belive is around 6300 lbs?) a 553 bobcat (3700 lbs) and the dry weight of the trailer (2150) for a total of 5850lbs. Does this make my GVRW 6300lbs or 12150? If I had this I technically do not need to do circle checks, do not need a cvor. I would only need safety stickers correct?

C. If you get pulled over by the MTO how do they figure out how much you actually weigh? I travel between brantford and burlington daily and have never really had an MTO so I don't really know what does down.


Thanks for the help, GREATLY appreciated.
Jeff
 
#9 ·
A. If you get a CVOR and have a RGW of over 4500kg you'll need to do circle checks plus log every day when using vehicle.

B. If your Trailer axle weight is below 6100lbs then that weight will not be added to the weight of the truck ( whatever the scaled weight of the truck would be ...empty or loaded including tongue weight). At 5850lbs your getting close....the tongue will use up some weight but I would scale the trailer loaded with bobcat full of fuel plus etc's to be safe. That would at least determine your RGW ultimately, then it is up to you to flirt with the line.

C. When MTO pulls you over they have a set of portable scales that they will use to measure each axles weight...truck and trailer. If your close on the weights (5850lbs) I would play it safe....CVOR plus RGW of both Gvwr
I've been pulled over :cry: with a 3/4 ton P/U (8600lbs GVWR) and single axle trailer 2900lbs GVWR...rubbed off the trailer GVWR, with no cert stickers and the guy was nice and didn't ticket:clapping: me simply cause he could not confirm the GVWR of the trailer...but said I should cert both cause the MTO staff at the scales will check with the Trailer Manufacture for GVWR.

I believe the fines start at $400 FOR EACH infraction for commercial vehicles
And be VERY nice to the MTO guy/gal...or they like to make you pay.
:dizzy: :dizzy: :dizzy: :dizzy: :dizzy:
 
Discussion starter · #10 ·
Ok I think I get it. I will register the truck for its full GWR and now matter what I haul I should be fine. With a CVOR and a safety stickers I should be good to go without circle checks.

How can I get to a scale? The only place I know that has a scale is the dump lol.

Cheers
Jeff
 
#11 ·
yep
register the truck for its full GVWR....if it is under 4500kg then you do NOT need a CVOR and the resulting daily circle checks and log.
BUT make sure you keep your trailer axle weights below 6100lbs or your screwed big time....so scale your trailer loaded to confirm your weight since you seem to be cutting it close.

Scales may be at scrap yards, farm supply outlets that have grain handling facilities would be a real good place, gravel pits.

You absolutly need to do the yearly safety on truck and trailer for the yellow stickers (since both GVWR of truck and trailer exceed 4500kg)
 
#12 ·
1. More then 10,000lbs on the trailer is a A licence not a D.

2. Any trailer over 3500lbs requires brakes and brakes on a trailer requires yellow sticker.

3. Yellow sticker on a trailer requires yellow sticker on the truck.

4. Truck reg. with commercial plates requires CVOR.

5. CVOR means daily walk around book. Failure to produce CVOR $85(I got that ticket Feb. 14). Failure to fill out log book $390(almost got that 1 too). And I almost got plow blocking front licence plate too.

6. It has been explained to us by the MTO that the GVW of the vehicle is everything in the truck and the pin weight of the trailer. You need to load your trailer correctly so you do not overload your tounge weight.

Last year the MTO was checking for 2 tie downs on every mower!
 
Discussion starter · #13 ·
Chris Thomas said:
1. More then 10,000lbs on the trailer is a A licence not a D.

2. Any trailer over 3500lbs requires brakes and brakes on a trailer requires yellow sticker.

3. Yellow sticker on a trailer requires yellow sticker on the truck.

4. Truck reg. with commercial plates requires CVOR.

5. CVOR means daily walk around book. Failure to produce CVOR $85(I got that ticket Feb. 14). Failure to fill out log book $390(almost got that 1 too). And I almost got plow blocking front licence plate too.

6. It has been explained to us by the MTO that the GVW of the vehicle is everything in the truck and the pin weight of the trailer. You need to load your trailer correctly so you do not overload your tounge weight.

Last year the MTO was checking for 2 tie downs on every mower!
Click to expand...
Hey,

So if I can not get to a scale should I just register the truck for the GVW in the door of the truck under commercial? Possibly add my max tounge weight to that number and thats the maximum that I could be carrying? I am going to get a cvor, right now I belive my truck is registered for personal use, do I need to register all over again for a new weight/commercial sticker?

Cheers
Jeff
 
Discussion starter · #15 ·
shepoutside said:
THat's combined for both truck AND trailer, not just the trailer :)
Click to expand...
Actually I belive chris was right, unless im reading this wrong. Here is the quote from mto web site:

"Any tractor-trailer or combination of motor vehicle and towed vehicles where the towed vehicles exceed a total gross weight of 4,600 kilograms"

What is the process to get a Clas A or D license. What kind of test is it?

Cheers
Jeff
 
#16 ·
I had a A licence until my last renewal. I let it go because of my time constraints. To get an A you need to have a written test and a road test and a medical. Do not confuse an A with an AZ. You can still not drive anything with air brakes. A D licence will not help you with trailer weight. The A licence test will include pulling the trailer. I brought my tri-axle empty, He was not to happy to see it empty but did the test any ways. With the road test they are watching to see your pre trip inspection.

If you look on the back of your licence, with a G you can have a combined weight of Truck/trailer 11,000kg., towed vehicle max 4600kg.

Your GVWR includes the tounge weight of the trailer.
 
#17 ·
Hey Jeff

Since your going to get your CVOR....playing it safe with the trailer:)
Set your RGW using both GVWR of truck and trailer (ie: truck 6300lbs GVWR plus trailer GVWR 7500lbs = about 14000lbs)

Beyond that when loading just do not exceed your max. axle weights especially on the truck rear axle as MTO will check.....the plate with the GVWR info should also state max axle weight for front and rear axles.

Make sure to do daily logs and circle check with the CVOR even if you are using the truck for a personal run to the corner store.

CVOR is not required until the Gross weight (empty or loaded of truck) or Registered Gross Weight (RGW) of the vehile exceeds 4500kg for the truck
http://www.e-laws.gov.on.ca:81/ISYSquery/IRLB8E3.tmp/5/doc
section 16.(1)(a) explains what is excluded.

Every truck and Van is plated with a commercial plate but your not a commercial motor vehicle until you exceed the 4500kg weight criteria and thus require the CVOR

Annual Cert and sticker is when the GVWR of truck and trailer exceed 4500kg

Read it all carefully and be able to resight it....know the rules.....cause MTO guy may know it but Mr police guy may not

:dizzy: :dizzy: :dizzy:
 
Discussion starter · #18 ·
Optimum Lawn said:
Hey Jeff

Since your going to get your CVOR....playing it safe with the trailer:)
Set your RGW using both GVWR of truck and trailer (ie: truck 6300lbs GVWR plus trailer GVWR 7500lbs = about 14000lbs)

Beyond that when loading just do not exceed your max. axle weights especially on the truck rear axle as MTO will check.....the plate with the GVWR info should also state max axle weight for front and rear axles.

Make sure to do daily logs and circle check with the CVOR even if you are using the truck for a personal run to the corner store.

CVOR is not required until the Gross weight (empty or loaded of truck) or Registered Gross Weight (RGW) of the vehile exceeds 4500kg for the truck
http://www.e-laws.gov.on.ca:81/ISYSquery/IRLB8E3.tmp/5/doc
section 16.(1)(a) explains what is excluded.

Every truck and Van is plated with a commercial plate but your not a commercial motor vehicle until you exceed the 4500kg weight criteria and thus require the CVOR

Annual Cert and sticker is when the GVWR of truck and trailer exceed 4500kg

Read it all carefully and be able to resight it....know the rules.....cause MTO guy may know it but Mr police guy may not

:dizzy: :dizzy: :dizzy:
Click to expand...
hey,

Ok but I thought aslong as the trailer is under 6100 lbs I techniqually do not need a cvor, just safety stick on both truck and trailer? ? If I did get a cvor that means I need to do circle checks EVERY TIME I use the truck, wether its loaded or not? I use this truck as a daily driver also and do not want to be doing circle checks every time I go out. now im even more confused lol.

Cheers
Jeff
 
Discussion starter · #19 ·
I just read the CVOR thing again. It says I only need the CVOR if the TRUCK WEIGHT is more then 4500, this INCLUDES weight put on by the tounge of a trailer. So I could have a 4500 KG trailer and still not need a CVOR unless it applies 3000 + lbs of weight to my truck (which it wouldent. Is this true?

I also reread the daily inspection and it says:

"Applies to trucks and tractors with a registered gross weight or an "actual weight" of more than 4,500 kg (9,920 lbs). "Actual weight" means the weight of the truck or tractor only, which may include weight transferred to it by an attached trailer."

So lets say I have my truck 6400 lbs + trailer 6600 lbs. My truck should be registered for a GVWR of 13000 lbs minimum and I should have a safety sticker because it is a combined weight of more then 4500 KG. I do not need a cvor because my TRUCK will not be more then 4500 KG GVW. I do not need to do daily checks because the trucks weight is again not 4500 KG. I also do not need an A class license because my trailer does not exceed 4500 kg.

Is this all correct? Sorry for the confusion and double posting, this is just what im trying to read and understand.
 
#20 ·
I don't think your GVWR includes the trailer weight. The GVWR is what you are allowed to carry including the pin weight of the trailer not the entire trailer. So you would need to licence it for your GVWR, I have my dually at 6,000kg.
 
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