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FoghornLeghorn

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Discussion starter · #1 ·
So I called my local Veteran's employment program office to try to hire Veterans. I thought the benefits would be:
1.)American: I'd prefer to hire an American
2.)Hard-working: You generally think Vets would be up for some hard work for a decent pay.
3.)English Speaking: Nothing gets lost in translation, so theoretically more work gets done more efficiently.
4.)Tax Credit: There is up to a $9600 tax credit for hiring disabled Veterans.

The whole Veteran idea is near and dear to my heart, being that I am a 100% disabled Veteran. I'd like to help a fellow soldier if I can.

Anyway, of all the Veterans I talked to, none were interested in working for less than $12/hour. Keep in mind, these guys are all unemployed with no college (I checked their resumes for education info), many didn't have a GED, and some had been to prison for drug/sex offenses.

A few guys said that they didn't really want to go to work, because they would make less from a job than if they just stayed home on unemployment and that the only reason they were in the Veteran Employment list was because they had to enroll in a job placement service to get unemployment.

I guess I'm sick of people saying that immigrants are taking their jobs. The truth is that there are so many jobs available, but Americans don't want to do them because it's hard work and they think their time is more valuable than putting in an honest 40 hours a week.

I wish the government would stop all these social programs (unemployment, section 8, welfare, WIC). All these benefits do is cripple a society and remove all incentive to go to work.

Even if I did have $15-18/hour to pay an American, the impression I got was that they were not going to be enthusiastic about working outside, regardless of the pay.

So I ended up hiring 2 resident alien workers for $13/hr 4/10 hour days with lunch and drinks included as part of pay.

I'm sorry, but Americans are digging America's grave. I wish people would stop blaming immigrants for sinking this great country.
 
I am a veteran myself, I also thought about going the route you went for the very same reason, maybe I need to rethink that! But part of the problem is the standard of living in this country is so high that $12/hr on a 40/hr week won't pay anyones bills, not sure what the solution to that is?
 
Yeah $480/week doesn't go very far so I can understand, but if they don't have any experience in the trade then $10/Hour is more than fair... and yeah Federal unemployment that probably doesn't run out I can understand there too... That's what my brother does, goes to school, gets it all paid for, still gets his unemployment, geesh can't beat all that...
 
Yeah $480/week doesn't go very far so I can understand, but if they don't have any experience in the trade then $10/Hour is more than fair... and yeah Federal unemployment that probably doesn't run out I can understand there too... That's what my brother does, goes to school, gets it all paid for, still gets his unemployment, geesh can't beat all that...
If $12/hr won't pay anyones bills how in the world can you expect them to work for $10/hr? I would start a helper at $12/hr and evaluate his performance if he's a keeper I would move him to $14 and so on and so on
 
If $12/hr won't pay anyones bills how in the world can you expect them to work for $10/hr? I would start a helper at $12/hr and evaluate his performance if he's a keeper I would move him to $14 and so on and so on
He said they wouldn't work for less than $12/hour, so I assumed he was more like $10/Hour... Depends on area, I see landscape maint. jobs here and there around here and they are starting at $9/hour.. and $12/hour for foreman's...
 
Discussion starter · #6 ·
He said they wouldn't work for less than $12/hour, so I assumed he was more like $10/Hour... Depends on area, I see landscape maint. jobs here and there around here and they are starting at $9/hour.. and $12/hour for foreman's...
True. All the large landscaping companies in town pay $8.75-9/hr BEFORE TAXES for laborers.

I thought I'd be able to attract at least a little better crowd for $10/hr before taxes plus free lunches and drinks. But I guess I was wrong.

The overall impression I got was that Americans did not want the job, nor would they really bust their butt while on the job, regardless of the pay.

So at that point I was just so frustrated with the idea of an American on my crew that I hired 2 english speaking LEGAL aliens for $13/hr with a few perks. These guys already have jobs and are EXCITED to leave them and work for me.
 
I'm sick of hearing how a college degree determines ones pay scale, imop, it means little to nothing for anything other than a Dr, or engineer or a lawyer. I know a lot of people without degree's that make a LOT of money, and a LOT of people with degree's that are dumb as rocks and will never make anything out of themselves, I evaluate people on their skills and work ethic long before I look at their education level, I've been mislead too many times by someone that said I have a degree therefore I should be paid more, sorry charlie you're just another dime a dozen these days.
 
I need to preface my statements by stating that I am a Vietnam Veteran.

First, being a Veteran doesn't necessarily bestow a mantel of purity on you. I've met many Veterans who probably belong in jail. They just happen to be Veterans.

Second, I believe that Veterans are us. They represent a cross section of 99% of this Country. I've met very few Veterans who come from wealthy families. Some want to work and some don't. Why would anyone in their right mind place a monthly disabilty check or an unemployment check at risk to do the work that we do for the wages we pay? I think you're fishing in the wrong hole.

Third, I believe that many of us hire people who may or not be legal citizens because they show up on time and work like dogs....for the wages we pay. This, despite all of the noise about illegal immigration. These folks are the new Americans...like it or not and profitibility forces many businesses to focus on productivity and overhead in order to survive in this economy.

Fourth, another local LCO in my area told me that he's happy with help that works as half as hard as he does. Experience with many employees has led him to this piece of wisdom. I agree with him. I have yet to meet an employee as interested in the success of the business as the owner is.

Fifth, I believe that human resources is the most irritating part of owning a business. Just when you get 'em trained they leave or disappear or rip you off or whatever.

Sixth, be wary of government programs that offer to help you. There are always hidden landmines. Pun intended.

I have no solutions only opinions and I've been proven wrong many times.
 
Ok, get this. I'm a veteran that makes $10 hr and very few people could or would want to do my job. On Veterans Day with me being the only veteran that works at the place the rest took the day off while I had to work. Kind of funny huh. The only one that was actually a veteran was the only one that had to work at a crummy $10 hr job on veterans day where I work. I'd love to make $12 hr. Out of my 5 day work week 1 days worth of wages cover my fuel to drive to and from there. Isn't that great, 20% of my net pay goes right to driving to my sh*tty job. Thats the market we're in around here. Of course 250 miles to east we have the oil fields that pay $25 hr but there is no where to live and if you do find a place to live they want like $1,500 for a single wide trailer. I own a nice house so I'm kinda stuck here but I do wish better jobs would come this way soon. Those guys too lazy to work for $12 hr should flatout be kicked in the nuts.
 
Would you work for $12/hr if it meant you still couldn't pay your mortage utilities and living expenses? Around here you couldn't own a house and make it on $10/hr the numbers just don't add up. It's not so much a matter of lazy as it is of simple economics.
 
Would you work for $12/hr if it meant you still couldn't pay your mortage utilities and living expenses? Around here you couldn't own a house and make it on $10/hr the numbers just don't add up. It's not so much a matter of lazy as it is of simple economics.
Not everybody needs or has earned owning a home. At $10 to $15 per hour I would expect most to have a apartment, $3k car, weekend trips camping etc. Point is as a employer we pay what we can and still make a profit. People have expectations on what lawn care costs and we can't afford to offer more.

If a employee wants a house they can find higher paying jobs, or have a dual income family. It's their choice.

Also anyone hiring a vet because he is a vet is discriminating. Legal or illegal it's still discrimination.
 
the average job around here pays $8-$10 per hr. you cannot live on that even in a one bedroom apartment. it's just a fact. most of them are married and they both make $10 per hour so they can afford it that way or they have roomates or something. being single and living alone you cannot make it on $10 per hour. the only way would be if you had a house that was paid for and no car payment. food,power,gas,cable,water,trash,phone,internet bills would eat right through that $10 per hour in no time. the thing is if you make $10 per hr your house and car are not gonna be paid off. you could drive some 3000 dollar car that would be breaking down on you all of the time but how long will that last until you are forced to buy another one?
 
Discussion starter · #14 ·
Would you work for $12/hr if it meant you still couldn't pay your mortage utilities and living expenses? Around here you couldn't own a house and make it on $10/hr the numbers just don't add up. It's not so much a matter of lazy as it is of simple economics.
Someone who works as a laborer in lawncare is not the demographic that owns a home.

People who have earned the ability to own a home are those who have saved money, paid their bills on time, have good credit, etc.

Generally, people working as laborers in lawncare are not at this point in their lives yet.

Not everyone can or should own a home.
 
Not everybody needs or has earned owning a home. At $10 to $15 per hour I would expect most to have a apartment, $3k car, weekend trips camping etc. Point is as a employer we pay what we can and still make a profit. People have expectations on what lawn care costs and we can't afford to offer more.
If a employee wants a house they can find higher paying jobs, or have a dual income family. It's their choice.
Also anyone hiring a vet because he is a vet is discriminating. Legal or illegal it's still discrimination.
This is exactly right. If you have a dual income family with each making $12/hr, you can purchase a home and live decent. You might not have new cars, but decent. You can't afford to pay every employee that walks through the door $15-16hr. If I did this my profit margin would tank. Try to raise you prices enough to cover that increase in wages. Its not easy. The increase in employees wages will mean a drastic decrease in your wage. You might be the lowest paid employee in the pool. The money has to come somewhere.
 
Discussion starter · #17 ·
I'm going to call bullshlt on that statement. This is America.
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Owning a home is called the American Dream, not the American Reality.

Just because someone works 40 hours a week at McDonald's, a $10/hour office clerk, or 40 hours in lawncare doesn't mean they deserve to own a home.

Owning a home is for those who have "paid their dues". Saved up enough money, paid bills regularly enough to have good credit.

I remember being 20, and working 84 hours a week for $6/hour at a restaurant. I was grateful for every single one of those hours, and even more grateful for every hour of overtime. I can remember at the end of that pay period, I had a check for $600 and change. That's barely enough for anyone to make ends meet back then.

Despite all those hours and hard work, I DID NOT DESERVE TO OWN A HOME at THAT POINT IN MY LIFE. I was a kid, I had not paid my dues long enough.
 
I saved money in the military and paid half down on my home plus paid double payments when times were better. The home is now paid off but the downturn of the economy has placed me in a $10 hour. By your standards I'm not worthy of owning a home. Bullsh*t. Many hardworking people are out there doing jobs worth $20+ hourly but only getting paid $8-10. Its not up to you to determine who deserves or doesn't deserve to own. I know I'm actually worth more now than I was when I was making good, but like stated before life sometimes takes a sh*t on people.
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Discussion starter · #19 ·
I saved money in the military and paid half down on my home plus paid double payments when times were better. The home is now paid off but the downturn of the economy has placed me in a $10 hour. By your standards I'm not worthy of owning a home. Bullsh*t. Many hardworking people are out there doing jobs worth $20+ hourly but only getting paid $8-10. Its not up to you to determine who deserves or doesn't deserve to own. I know I'm actually worth more now than I was when I was making good, but like stated before life sometimes takes a sh*t on people.
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Presto! You paid your dues, did what you were supposed to do, were smart about saving money when you were young. You're 31-32 and bought your house when you were at a place in life to buy one. Hence, you deserve/deserved to be a homeowner.

Now, think of all the soldiers you served alongside who bought new trucks, took women out to dinners, bought jetskis with their military pay.

Chances are they didn't have any savings, therefore didn't deserve a house yet.

You made your point, and I agree with you.

Back to my original post: I wanted to hire Americans, but with the economy the way it is and with everyone on unemployment, none of them want to work for market wages. Look, I wish the landscaping field provided enough profit to start guys off at $16/hour, but the reality is that it's not going to happen.

I was saying that there are PLENTY of jobs for able, willing Americans; but the truth is that even if they're able, they certainly aren't willing. The government has set up a system that makes it more advantageous to sit at home on unemployment than to accept a job for $12/hour. I see a huge problem with that setup...
 
Presto! You paid your dues, did what you were supposed to do, were smart about saving money when you were young. You're 31-32 and bought your house when you were at a place in life to buy one. Hence, you deserve/deserved to be a homeowner.

Now, think of all the soldiers you served alongside who bought new trucks, took women out to dinners, bought jetskis with their military pay.

Chances are they didn't have any savings, therefore didn't deserve a house yet.

You made your point, and I agree with you.

Back to my original post: I wanted to hire Americans, but with the economy the way it is and with everyone on unemployment, none of them want to work for market wages. Look, I wish the landscaping field provided enough profit to start guys off at $16/hour, but the reality is that it's not going to happen.

I was saying that there are PLENTY of jobs for able, willing Americans; but the truth is that even if they're able, they certainly aren't willing. The government has set up a system that makes it more advantageous to sit at home on unemployment than to accept a job for $12/hour. I see a huge problem with that setup...
Its everywhere also in the pay range. Buddy has a trucking company 1 job at about $50k a year home every weekend. For the last two years has not found a good employee. Last quit to go back to school, under 30 years old. Most who have applied have turned it down due to they used to make $70k a few years ago doing the same thing, so they stay unemployed.

in 2000 you hired a person with a pulse due to supply of workers, this increased wages across the board. Now since they were used to being overpaid they don't want to actually work for what the market says they are worth. Obama policy doesn't help this either.
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