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roody2333

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Discussion starter · #1 ·
I have a bunch of 4 stroke machines like 190cc push mower, 15 HP OHV Kawasaki on 36" WBH, GX160 Honda, etc.

I have small 4-cycle 30cc line trimmers though that say 20W-50 on the cap. I have used 20W-50 in 100 degree and 30 degree Fahrenheit with the 4-stroke trimmers, but they aren't lasting as long without problems vs my 2 stroke trimmers, could be the oil type vs the temperature? Or tilting the 4 stroke trimmer to do edging (no smoke though)?

Toro manual for my 190cc has a graph like below but it says Synthetic 5W-30 will cover all temperatures.

Was going to buy oil today and noticed Synthetic vs Conventional. Synthetic cost like %35 more but I'll pay for better results if synthetic is okay for everything and not going to cause a problem? "Part Synthetic" is okay too? Just stay away from non detergent (or is it detergent) type?

In other words, just get synthetic for everything and follow the chart except for the 4 stroke trimmers always use 20W-50?

I was going to get a 5 quart of oil today at AutoZone, the stuff for cars I guess. Since cars rack up so many more miles vs machines, I shouldn't ever need to use something like 'high mileage protection' even if the machine is like 30 years old but probably only has 400 hours on it?

There are many choices like Pennzoil, mobil1, Castrol, Valvoline, Quaker State, etc and then cheaper off brands or store brands.

And then they have different versions like Extended Performance, Advanced Performance, European Car formula, Ultra Platinum, etc etc.

If someone could recommend a particular version from a particular brand that is always a good choice, then I'll just forever only buy that kind to be safe and simple (and get the SAE30 or 10W-30 version of it as per the ambient temperature if that's the best way). I'm not looking to be cheap on oil so I would like the best options for my main machines but also a cheaper (but not bad) option for broken machines that I fix and sell. Thank you.

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#3 ·
Rotella 5w40 in the blue bottles. It is a true synthetic high quality oil. It is a little expensive (about 22.00/gal). Being formulated as a HD oil it has more anti-wear additives than a car oil that is geared towards economy. It can be safely used in all the above mentioned equipment. The only place I don't use the 5w40 is in the hydro systems.
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Discussion starter · #4 ·
I was thinking about getting some 15W-30 today based on the thermometer picture. Or 10W-30 vs SAE30 but I'm not sure about the temps but I think sae30 and 10w-30 are the most popular so I'm a bit warry to step outside the norm. Actually I've been using 10W-30 or SAE30 over the summers as per instruction manuals but I see I should have only used SAE30 in summer (and maybe even SAE40) according to this thermometer chart.


I won't be mowing in freezing temps. Brush cutter and hedge trimmer are the only 4 stroke machines I'll use in freezing but that's the trimmer power head that says on the cap 20W-50. It's such a small piston, I always thought that's why it says to use anything but 'regular' 10w-30 or SAE30. Maybe I should just follow the thermometer chart for the little 30cc 4 stroke power head also?

I'm just hoping someone would knowingly say something like: "yes just go by the chart, and preferably always use synthetic but 'conventional' will work also, and don't use anything that says made for High Mileage cars or Foreign Cars". A renowned brand and type is -Castrol Extended Performance- (or whatever one you think) and they make SAE30 and 10W30 so use that per the thermometer and use 5W-20 (or 5W-30?) for snowblowing.

something that claims to work for every temperature I am a bit warry of.


I bought a bunch of 5w-20 from home depot because it said for snowblowers but the thermometer picture makes 5W-30 look like a better option (removing snow the day after in the sun, it is often much warmer than 14 degreers F max for 5w-30 and it still goes to minum 14 degrees F like the 5W-30). Forgot to mention the snowblower I am in the market for also need to know which oil to use.

thanks again. I obviously don't want to blow piston rings etc, I don't fix that really.
 
#5 ·
Roody you think too much. 90% of all you read is Madison Ave horsechit. All the claims are by the same people trying to sell it to you. Full syn is great, but can you justify the extra cost. You still have to change it at the intervals. No engine manufacturer will tell you you can extend the interval when you use "Joe's Super Wonder Oil"
Up the quality of trimmer and you will see better life. No OEM will put their name on an inferior oil.
Snow blowers are hard on engines. 10w-30 work well. Too thin and it will blow out the breather. The trick is to use the heaviest viscosity you can while having it thin enough to get it started.
To answer your question, and what we use in a large retail dealer and repair facility is 30W for summer and 10w-30 for Kohler, winter use and older snow blowers. 5W -30 in a newer low hrs snowblower. All conventional. Syn is too damn expensive. All air cooled engine burn oil. The thicker the better, within reason.
 
#7 ·
Ricky86 is spot on you really are over thinking it. Syn really isn't needed for wear or longer drain intervals, one thing it will help with is easier staring in colder temps.

I only suggested the 5w40 rotella due to the 1000s of hrs I have reliably ran it in multiple pieces of equipment. I have over 2000 trouble free hrs on a kohler 20hp using 5w40 and 15w40 diesel oils. No kholer lifter tick either.
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Discussion starter · #10 ·
The Honda 4-stroke trimmer calls for 10W-30 oil. The Stihl 4-stroke trimmer mixes oil with gas. What four stroke trimmer requires 20W-50?

Up the quality of trimmer and you will see better life

Ryobi 4 stroke powerhead. There are different models over the years but they're all mostly the same, some say I think 10W-30 and the others say 20W50. I know,, Ryobi,, but I'm fond of these machines. I have a husqv trimmer just sitting there forever and used other brands but stuck with Ryobis, I won't touch a homelite or anything like that though really. Ryobi parts and all the powerhead attachments are cheap. I prefer their backpack blower to the mid grade husqv which I dislike, the weight and ergonomics, and I think the Ryobi is stronger (one has slightly more MPH, the other more CFM, I forgot which but the Ryobi feels stronger for a fraction of the cost). I get them mostly as As-Is Untested Returns on ebay for like 1/3 the price, I clean a carb or fix something stupid like a detached wire and they run like new. The 2 stroke trimmer powerhead I mentioned that is lasting longer than my 4strokes is actually my Ryobi from like 3.5 years ago I beat the heck out of over the years, runs excellent, never changed an engine part or tuned up. I just prefer cleaner burning and sound of a 4 stroke.

Anyway, I made a mistake before saying that I bought 5w-20 labeled for snow blowers at home depot but it was 5w-30 which makes sense.

What I gather is:
-I can always just trust the chart and be ok but there are other factors that give a slight edge.
The larger temperature range an oil has on the chart means that it will burn off more oil at the max high or max low of that range, if for instance I use SAE30 in 32 F, then it might burn off more oil than if I were using it at 110 F (or vice versa I'm not sure how it works yet). But in other words, try to use what has a small range on the chart if it fits the current temperatures.

-Synthetic might give a slight edge like easier starting etc but I can just use Conventional aka Dino and always be safe.

-HD (Heavy Duty) and other additives/versions like "Extended Performance", "Advanced Performance", "Ultra Platinum" will only give a slight advantage but are not necessary and are NEVER unsafe to use (although I wouldn't use anything with additives saying 'Specialized for European Cars").

-NEVER buy oil that says ND (AKA Non Detergent).

I'm paranoid about oil because, well, my first car was a ~12 year old Ford thunderbird. I would open the hood and check the oil dipstick right there front and center no problem. Head gasket blew after about a year and I found a bargain on a Pontiac coupe with like 90K miles so we scraped the T-bird and got the newer Pontiac. Got an oil change at a gas station for the Pontiac at some point and the oil dummy light never went off on the dash because the guy messed with the sensor or something. So I would open the hood and check oil level in between 3K mile oil changes. Well, apparently American cars and Pontiacs are orientated much differently, I was opening the hood and checking the trans fluid (red dip stick now I know) and the oil stick was like hidden in the back. I seized the engine in like a year from driving it without oil. Got as much for it for scrap as I paid and bought an older Camry. Had no problems with the Camry oil sensor or dipstick or anything like that, but the oil pump decided the break as I'm driving through the Holland Tunnel leaving Manhattan (no where to pull over for a couple miles, blind turns in ~45 MPH zone, people drive kind of aggressively. Got real lucky though and made it out of the tunnel and broke down on the side of the highway, oil pump broke and engine seized, a great mechanic couldn't exmplain why the oil pump broke, it just broke. Scraped the Camry for about half of what I paid I think.
Anyway, this was a while ago and not really related to choosing the right oil but is probably why I'm scared to use the wrong oil. Thanks for the help.
 
#11 ·
ricky86 said:
Roody you think too much. 90% of all you read is Madison Ave horsechit. All the claims are by the same people trying to sell it to you. Full syn is great, but can you justify the extra cost. You still have to change it at the intervals. No engine manufacturer will tell you you can extend the interval when you use "Joe's Super Wonder Oil"
Up the quality of trimmer and you will see better life. No OEM will put their name on an inferior oil.
Snow blowers are hard on engines. 10w-30 work well. Too thin and it will blow out the breather. The trick is to use the heaviest viscosity you can while having it thin enough to get it started.
To answer your question, and what we use in a large retail dealer and repair facility is 30W for summer and 10w-30 for Kohler, winter use and older snow blowers. 5W -30 in a newer low hrs snowblower. All conventional. Syn is too damn expensive. All air cooled engine burn oil. The thicker the better, within reason.
Click to expand...
If you think synthetic oil is no better than conventional oil I would want somebody else to work on my stuff. Yes it is more expensive, drain interval are also much longer.
 
#14 ·
ricky86 said:
Urine idiot. Never implied that. When you have something intelligent to add, fine. Otherwise don't be a troll.
Click to expand...
So what qualifications do you have that makes you so intelligent?, certainly not your charming personality.
I'm not positive but would bet I have more experience than you when it comes to oils and machinery. Just because you fix lawnmowers doesn't make you an oil expert., and yes a mfg will endorse an oil that is substandard if the incentive is big enough, you sir are an arrogant ass.
 
#15 ·
Synthetics are certainly worth the extra cost. The have higher thermal breakdown than conventional which is what kills air cooled engines. Guys are not exactly diligent about cleaning cooling fins or over working an engine and not having a temp gauge you will never know until it's too late that you ran hot.
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Discussion starter · #16 ·
ok thanks, so I will usually if not always put synthetic in my machines, and put the cheap conventional aka dino in the stuff I fix and sell, unless it's something really nice, but a regular cheap push mower or something, the store brand dino should be just fine.

I was confused about oil because I didn't know that the temperature and thus the chart is pretty much the tell all end all. I thought each engine might have a particular preference but. Unless I have the manual and it says or warns to only use a particular viscosity or type (like Non detergent), then I will just use whatever 4 stroke air cooled oil the charts says for the temperature.

Just to double check though, this is all correct?


-I can always just trust the chart and be ok but there are other factors that give a slight edge.
The larger temperature range an oil has on the chart means that it will burn off more oil at the max high or max low of that range, if for instance I use SAE30 in 32 F, then it might burn off more oil than if I were using it at 110 F (or vice versa I'm not sure how it works yet). But in other words, try to use what has a small range on the chart if it fits the current temperatures.


-Synthetic might give a slight edge like easier starting etc as noted in the disagreements, but I can use Conventional aka Dino and always be safe.

-HD (Heavy Duty) and other additives/versions like "Extended Performance", "Advanced Performance", "Ultra Platinum" will only give a slight advantage but are not necessary and are NEVER unsafe to use (although I wouldn't use anything with additives saying 'Specialized for European Cars").

-NEVER buy oil that says ND (AKA Non Detergent) unless the manual calls for it but what kind of engines even need Non Detergent oil? I was told when I asked for which oil for my 14HP OHV air cooled Kawasaki engine on a 36" WBH to NEVER use ND Non Detergent oil.
 
#17 ·
Non detergent is only seen in air compressors these days. No modern engine as in last 40 years would use non detergent. Some motorcycles specify funky oils because of their wet clutches but even most popular brands run regular oils nowadays. Your manual is your best friend.
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Discussion starter · #18 ·
thanks, ok so no ND oils.
My final questions above are all correct though?, the parts where I made like a bullet list with "-" symbols?
But then I'm confused if that I should just follow the temperature charts, why the 4 stroke trimmer/powerhead says 20W-50 ( ok for 20° F to 122° F), they just assume no one will use the machine below 20 °F?
 
#20 ·
You can put the used oil from your machines into the ones you sell.
People are going to offer you peanuts for it anyway, and they will probably tune it up themselves once they buy it. Don't invest in anything you're selling other than to clean it up and take really nice pictures of it.
 
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