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36 Stand On VS 30 Inch Walk Behind

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#21 ·
Cedar Lawn Care said:
Thanks for your input. My goal is to really limit my walking so it's realistic to work a 8-10 hour day without hating life. I only have Husqvarna, Exmark, Toro, and Snapper Pro dealers in my city. If I got a stand on it would be an Exmark Vantage. Quite a few of my yards have gates that can't be more than 40 inches. Some of them I doubt I will even get a 36 into. I will have to swing by a dozen of my larger properties to see what size makes the most sense.
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Those Grandstand/vantage units look nice. Go for it. I have a 36" Scag Wb walk behind to compare my 48" Scag V Ride to, and it is a night and day difference. I can cut everything I did with the 36" mower with the 48" mower. Plus it is a lot easier to operate, and no walking is awesome! Get finished a lot faster with it!

If you have that many gates, a 36" might be worth it, but I have no need, and you should see my town. If a backyard is so small you can't get the 48" through the gate, I doubt it would be too hard to use the 21 on.
 
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#22 · (Edited)
Cedar Lawn Care said:
Thank you for your input. I am 6 foot 8 260 pounds so my added body weight could be a factor as well. If I happen to be up your way in the next few months I may get in contact with you to check out your machines. Do you feel your 42 inch mulcher does a good job for residential lawns? If the grass is pretty thick does it leave a clumpy mess, or are you happy with it overall? What was the price tag on your 42 mulcher new, what year, and what do you want for it?
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yes I have seen the s 14 in action... fuel consumption is going to be twice what you experience with a 30",,,but you will complete jobs 50-75% faster , so I wouldnt worry too much about more gas... especially since your cutting out employees.

I have extensive (years) experience with the 42 mulcher residentially, until recently (last few years) it was really THE mulcher to have. some of the mulching tech has caught up.
Can you take a ghs machine/deck and not collect? yes, there are accessories for that, the best way is the way i mentioned before.

You CAN put the 36" on the C model as well.
It might not get as much trimablity as the S model as the tractor is not as narrow....which might get to be a neutralizer for its nobleness.

I have, in th past put a 36" and narrow drive tires on a model T, for reasons.

Irrigation/rutting is all about having properly control of the irrigation....every system has a controller... the lawn service provider SHOULD have control over that.
The system should not Be watering the day before a mowing... simply change the controller so it coincides with your schedule.

IF you can fit a model C with a 42" on most of your properties GO for it.
I would still suggest having two decks.

Ive run walkers (Model Ts...there largest tractor) a LOT on mid-northwest irrigated turf, between colorado, utah and Idaho.... its not a problem when you have control over the system.
IF there are spongy lawns you still have your 30s.
you can still push out of a few customers without causing issues.

Even if you only collect a few lawns, having the GHS capability (especially for clean ups) is amazing...ESPECIALLY solo.
However, if you feel you can just do clean ups with the 30s when needed. Check out the Model B with a mulch deck (they also make side discharge decks.

even if you started bagging ALL your lawns you will go faster and make more money with a walker.

If you have a place you could dump it in town, I would consider it... as your level of service would increase.

Personally I prefer baggin in the spring and fall and switching to much (or SD) in the summer....its the best for the lawn, best for appearance and best for the bottom line.
which is why I suggest two decks.

it takes an average of 5 minutes to change decks.... Ive never seen it take longer than 10 or less than 2

one more thing... Im 6'5" and 280...so except for your really long legs, i dont think youll have any issues with the machine...sit on a few and see if you fit...6'8" is TALL
 
#23 ·
TPendagast said:
I have extensive (years) experience with the 42 mulcher residentially, until recently (last few years) it was really THE mulcher to have. some of the mulching tech has caught up.
Can you take a ghs machine/deck and not collect? yes, there are accessories for that, the best way is the way i mentioned before.

You CAN put the 36" on the C model as well.
It might not get as much trimablity as the S model as the tractor is not as narrow....which might get to be a neutralizer for its nobleness.

have, in th past put a 36" and narrow drive tires on a model T, for reasons.

Irrigation/rutting is all about having properly control of the irrigation....every system has a controller... the lawn service provider SHOULD have control over that.
The system should not Be watering the day before a mowing... simply change the controller so it coincides with your schedule.

IF you can fit a model C with a 42" on most of your properties GO for it.
I would still suggest having two decks.
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I am curious to what mulch decks (other than Walker?) have caught up with the 42A on cool season grasses?

Regarding irrigation control. Yes having access to the controller is nice , but not really practical when the OP has 80-100 accounts, who has time to coordinate getting into that many garages at least three times a year?

Deck changes.....Can you buy a quick disconnect for Walker S-B models. Mine does not have them. Lining up driveshafts , deck arms was not a 5 minute exercise for me , but really a pain in the ass. I need to pursue this further I guess.

Regarding mower choice. I am really impressed with the B and S as they weigh less than 600 lbs, and are narrow enough to use the low profile tire with the 42 decks. . Sure trim is sacrificed , bit adding 20% more flotation is huge as soon as the mower sinks a fraction of a inch the finish cut of the lawn is shot, especially on small properties. And yes the 10.5 works on the S with a 42.
 
#24 ·
Ok Walker fanatics you went and infected my FIL. He wants one ,however he needs a 36" and he wants the GHS that I heard rumor was discontinued. Large back yard but property lines only allow for 40" gates. He is older and doesn't want to fool around changing decks. If it comes to that I will be the one doing it. But if the 36GHS is still available then my life will be simpler. I tried to get him mulch but no go.
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#25 ·
If you don't have any major hills to contend with I would get an exmark vantage 36, its a stand on unit with the zero turn controls, much faster ground speed than a walk behind, much easier to turn around in tight spaces as in reversing and making turns on a dime, takes up no space on a trailer, tires are much larger and wider and it seems like they do not tear up turf as bad as walk behinds can, IMO only thing that is better to get a walkbehind turf tracer for is their ability to rock an almost vertical slope. Here is my setup

Image
 
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#26 ·
Patriot Services said:
Ok Walker fanatics you went and infected my FIL. He wants one ,however he needs a 36" and he wants the GHS that I heard rumor was discontinued. Large back yard but property lines only allow for 40" gates. He is older and doesn't want to fool around changing decks. If it comes to that I will be the one doing it. But if the 36GHS is still available then my life will be simpler. I tried to get him mulch but no go.
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its called the MS36GHS and yes its available, expect a price tag in the high 9s
 
#27 ·
dishboy said:
I am curious to what mulch decks (other than Walker?) have caught up with the 42A on cool season grasses?

Regarding irrigation control. Yes having access to the controller is nice , but not really practical when the OP has 80-100 accounts, who has time to coordinate getting into that many garages at least three times a year?

Deck changes.....Can you buy a quick disconnect for Walker S-B models. Mine does not have them. Lining up driveshafts , deck arms was not a 5 minute exercise for me , but really a pain in the ass. I need to pursue this further I guess.

Regarding mower choice. I am really impressed with the B and S as they weigh less than 600 lbs, and are narrow enough to use the low profile tire with the 42 decks. . Sure trim is sacrificed , bit adding 20% more flotation is huge as soon as the mower sinks a fraction of a inch the finish cut of the lawn is shot, especially on small properties. And yes the 10.5 works on the S with a 42.
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you can get the quick connect on any pto shaft.... if never had one without it, maybe my dealers never bothered to order machines without them
 
#28 · (Edited)
TPendagast said:
its called the MS36GHS and yes its available, expect a price tag in the high 9s
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$7995.00 is current pricing with aluminum gearboxes.

I am still really curious as to what other mulch systems compete with the Walker 42A for cool season grass.
The dealer here says the Walker 48 with the gator and toro inner wing ripoff is good with a B23 but I have not seen one in the field.
 
#29 ·
Hi Cedar, It sounds like your business is doing well. I would like to put my input in. We had 36 inch hydro walk behinds and we now have four exmark 30s. The 30s are faster on the smaller lawns. We had velkeys and they did not do well on small lawns. The hydros ripped the lawns on the turns even on good three point turns. It made it worse with the velkeys. We have lawns that range from 6000 square feet to half an acre. We don't take lawns over a half acre. I had a friend bring his stander to some of our lawns and I did not like the cut, rutting, and it did rip the lawns on the turns. I just could not justify spending $7000 grand for a stander. Maybe some of the new standers are better. Just my opinion.
 
#30 ·
Cedar, I would also like to throw in my opinion on going full time. I teach school, I have steady pay, health care , and a pension. I cut close to fifty lawns a week. I go out with two guys every night after school. It's long hours but I love it. I thought about going full time but decided against it. I felt I had the best of both worlds. I felt with a family I needed to play it safe. I may retire early, but I will have my pension to support my move. There are alot of things to think about. I love being my own boss but having a family I took the conservative route. If I got hurt teaching I still had money coming in. The other point I looked at was the lack of good workers. I have part time workers who have other jobs, they do a great job. I am a perfectionist, I don't see alot of the workers out there with that drive. Most really good workers want year round work. I would have to lay them off for a few months. Just giving you my opinion.
 
#31 ·
Re: Ssantor post above ^^^ I agree with 100%.

Cedar does your wife work and have a benefit package...?

Does your wife do any of the paperwork or help out in any way...?

Do you have young kids in the house...?

The facts are with this kind of business it is tough to keep good people due to the seasonal nature of the work. This is a constant theme here on lawnsite and what I hear from local peers with employees.

If I was in your shoes I would not quit your primary job, unless a spouse had an outstanding benefit package, raise your prices and add on more profitable services such as aplications.
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#32 ·
dishboy said:
$7995.00 is current pricing with aluminum gearboxes.

I am still really curious as to what other mulch systems compete with the Walker 42A for cool season grass.
The dealer here says the Walker 48 with the gator and toro inner wing ripoff is good with a B23 but I have not seen one in the field.
Click to expand...
scag hurricane mulch system for one.
exmarks has similar results.

I havent played with many mulching kits besides those since about 2005.
I had a hustler mulcher but i cant for the life of me remember anything about it... which means it probably was medicore, nothing bad, nothing great.
 
#33 ·
SSantor said:
Hi Cedar, It sounds like your business is doing well. I would like to put my input in. We had 36 inch hydro walk behinds and we now have four exmark 30s. The 30s are faster on the smaller lawns. We had velkeys and they did not do well on small lawns. The hydros ripped the lawns on the turns even on good three point turns. It made it worse with the velkeys. We have lawns that range from 6000 square feet to half an acre. We don't take lawns over a half acre. I had a friend bring his stander to some of our lawns and I did not like the cut, rutting, and it did rip the lawns on the turns. I just could not justify spending $7000 grand for a stander. Maybe some of the new standers are better. Just my opinion.
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your not supposed to run a velke in small areas....its an option like windshield wipers, you dont turn them on when its not raining, you dont ride a velke on small tight lawns.
 
#34 ·
Cedar Lawn Care said:
Part of the problem is convincing the wife this is a good idea. I am sure people with wives will know they like a consistent paycheck, benefits, safe secure job, etc. I have laid all the numbers out for her and she is still super nervous I will start hating the industry, get burned out etc. They are valid points so I am weighing all the pros and cons.
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My wife and I went through the same thing, with a newborn and found out 2 months ago baby #2 is on the way.

It took a lot for her and I. But the bottom line is BOTH of you need to be onboard and she needs to stand by you. I was in the opposite situation....I was not ready to quit, but my wife really wanted me to. In the end, I haven't made as much as I was working full time, but I'm getting there. Life as been MUCH easier and I can now focus on my business. I'd suggest putting together a good plan over the winter and quit next spring.
 
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#35 ·
Exact, It sounds like we think the same way about making sure our properties look great after we mow them. Its good to hear. Grassmonkey when did you go full time? Do you go out and cut with the crew? I recall you use to send two guys out mowing while you worked another job. How is your year going? What equipment are you using?
 
#36 ·
SSantor said:
Exact, It sounds like we think the same way about making sure our properties look great after we mow them. Its good to hear. Grassmonkey when did you go full time? Do you go out and cut with the crew? I recall you use to send two guys out mowing while you worked another job. How is your year going? What equipment are you using?
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Ssantor, Yes I'm super picky on how I leave a lawn looking. I even get compliments from competitors who run GHS Walkers. :)

Yet again I agree with Grassmonkey's post re: make sure your wife is on board and in near 100% agreement. Not to stir up muddy waters but in my situation the lawn biz has been blamed for much. In all honesty it has been overblown and even if I had bankers hours and a $85,000 paycheck it would not of mattered long term.

Even the best of marriages and relationships can be strained if there is not an agreement of sacrifices involved and the clear benefits of running your own business. There are many benefits of running your own show. If the blame game rises up and conflicts happen....not fun. Speaking from experience here. :hammerhead:

Seriously...it can take the fight and drive out of you if it gets bad enough.

The quality health insurance and medical and retirement benefits are tough to beat with better Companies and many civil service jobs. State and local government etc.

Not sure how many of you have read the book "E Myth revisited". At some point you will want to replace yourself in the feild. If the biz can't operate with out you...as in constantly having to work with your crew...?
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Discussion starter · #37 ·
Exact Rototilling said:
Re: Ssantor post above ^^^ I agree with 100%.

Cedar does your wife work and have a benefit package...?

Does your wife do any of the paperwork or help out in any way...?

Do you have young kids in the house...?

The facts are with this kind of business it is tough to keep good people due to the seasonal nature of the work. This is a constant theme here on lawnsite and what I hear from local peers with employees.

If I was in your shoes I would not quit your primary job, unless a spouse had an outstanding benefit package, raise your prices and add on more profitable services such as aplications.
Posted via Mobile Device
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My wife doesn't work outside of the lawn business. She stays home and raises our children who are very young and we will likely have more children. Down the road 10 years she will work once our kids are in school, but that's quite a while away. She does help with advertising, answers the phone when I am working, and helps with billing.
 
Discussion starter · #38 ·
I will also add that this year for 5 months while I had my employee going out solo my life was pretty stress free. If I could hold on to a guy or two like that my decision would be a no brainer. When I literally have nothing for an employee to do for 5 months it makes it extremely difficult to keep someone around year to year. We treated him well, paid him well, gave him gifts, and he left on good terms - but the preference it to keep people around for years. With small residential lawns the clients can be really picky with the edges especially. Hiring a new guy each year and expecting him to do a great job edging, trimming, and blowing makes me pretty nervous. I feel like about anyone can mow (at least with an Exmark 30), but the edges make me pretty hesitant when it comes to hiring inexperienced help. It's probably something we all deal with, and make work one way or another.

I appreciate hearing both sides of the argument and appreciate input from all. I will continue to welcome input with open arms.
 
#39 ·
Model C Walker with 42" bagging deck, that way you can run wider tires that won't rut like the skinny tires on the 36". Use it where ever it will fit, keep the 30" for where it doesn't fit. 16' trailer with 4', swing out sides from axles forward. Dump on the trailer then shovel/blow off at the end of the day. Will be less labor intensive than lifting all the grass into a truck bed.
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Discussion starter · #40 ·
KS_Grasscutter said:
Model C Walker with 42" bagging deck, that way you can run wider tires that won't rut like the skinny tires on the 36". Use it where ever it will fit, keep the 30" for where it doesn't fit. 16' trailer with 4', swing out sides from axles forward. Dump on the trailer then shovel/blow off at the end of the day. Will be less labor intensive than lifting all the grass into a truck bed.
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Thanks for your input. I was actually in Wichita yesterday and went to a walker dealer there. It was interesting being in that part of the country and seeing all the bermuda grass you have.

I will strongly consider a 42 inch for that reason. I'll have to take a close look at my 4000+ square foot lawns and see if I could fit the 42 on most of them since they are the ones the larger mower would be most useful on.
 
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