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grassmasterswilson

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Discussion starter · #1 ·
since centipede is by far my hardest turf to get good results on I figured we could use a good specific thread.

So based on what I'm hearing ....

PH - 5.5
Spring - 1 lb gallery(feb/march)
Fall - ??? Low rate prodiamine or specticle? My centipede will go dormant and I need poa protections(sept-November)

Patch disease is also an issue in some spots. Either customer has battled it year after year or calls me when lawn is almost all brown. I normally go 1 spring/2 fall apps on lawns with a history. What about 1 spring and 1 fall standard fungicide??

Fertilizer wise I'm all granular. I usually try for 1.25-1.5 lb N of AS and 2-2.5lb SOP over 3-4 apps.
 
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#2 ·
I've been researching centipede a LOT lately. Some things I've learned:
  1. Chlorine fertilizers can be damaging to centipede in certain soil types that hold on to things longer.
  2. Centipede is sensitive to root pruning. Do not use pre-emergents on any centipede that does not have a well established root system. If pre-emergents must be used to control poa annua or crabgrass, lowest-rate split app is preferred. If using a strong root-pruning pre-emergent like prodiamine, use it when centipede is dormant.
  3. Simazine is an effective pre-emergent for centipede without the harsh root pruning. The trick to making simazine most effective is to water in with 1/2" water within a day of application. The longer simazine lays on the surface without being watered in, the less effective it becomes once it is watered in. After 10 days without being watered in, simazine is rendered mostly useless.
  4. Gallery is an expensive broadleaf pre-emergent, but is very successful on centipede (and many other turfs) for broadleaf control for 3+ months after application. It's active ingredient (isoxaben) has an extremely low-volatility and can be sprayed on most ornamentals and bulbs with zero damage.
  5. Effective selective Post-emergent herbicides for centipede in my order of preference include:
  • Celsius (has some residual qualities)
  • MSM .25-.5oz/acre (has some residual qualities)
  • Avenue South (includes low concentration of 2,4-d amine)
  • Speedzone Southern (includes low concentration of 2,4-d ester)

Even if you do everything right with treatments, a winter with several days of below freezing temps in a row will kill large sections of centipede.
 
#3 ·
WhiteStoneGuy said:
I've been researching centipede a LOT lately. Some things I've learned:
  1. Chlorine fertilizers can be damaging to centipede in certain soil types that hold on to things longer.
  2. Centipede is sensitive to root pruning. Do not use pre-emergents on any centipede that does not have a well established root system. If pre-emergents must be used to control poa annua or crabgrass, lowest-rate split app is preferred. If using a strong root-pruning pre-emergent like prodiamine, use it when centipede is dormant.
  3. Simazine is an effective pre-emergent for centipede without the harsh root pruning. The trick to making simazine most effective is to water in with 1/2" water within a day of application. The longer simazine lays on the surface without being watered in, the less effective it becomes once it is watered in. After 10 days without being watered in, simazine is rendered mostly useless.
  4. Gallery is an expensive broadleaf pre-emergent, but is very successful on centipede (and many other turfs) for broadleaf control for 3+ months after application. It's active ingredient (isoxaben) has an extremely low-volatility and can be sprayed on most ornamentals and bulbs with zero damage.
  5. Effective selective Post-emergent herbicides for centipede in my order of preference include:
  • Celsius (has some residual qualities)
  • MSM .25-.5oz/acre (has some residual qualities)
  • Avenue South (includes low concentration of 2,4-d amine)
  • Speedzone Southern (includes low concentration of 2,4-d ester)
Even if you do everything right with treatments, a winter with several days of below freezing temps in a row will kill large sections of centipede.
Click to expand...
I never had problems with Simazine not working or not lasting. If I was using it as a pre, it got watered in immediately. The concept of spraying something that needed to be watered in and driving off before that happened is foreign to me. Gallery can supposedly stay on the surface for so many days before watering in. I never tested that. Gallery is another product to be watered in immediately. I do not routinely deal with turf that products cannot be watered in by myself after application.
 
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#5 ·
Simazine is no longer used in my State. But when I did, it was a 2 lb followed by 1 lb split.
 
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Discussion starter · #6 ·
What are your thoughts on using barricade or similar product in the fall. Around here the centipede goes "semi dormant" meaning mostly brown but with some green at the crown. The turf will not grow at all from nov 1 - maybe mid march.

So a 5 month rate of a root pruners should not hurt?

I think a lot of my problem comes in spring when I'm trying to clean up weeds. Post products and a little green sets me back but I can never start early enough to beat warmer weather.
 
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#7 ·
In the dormant season, root pruners hurt less. I use the growing season as the time to thicken and repair a lawn. It has been found in my state that root pruners are damaging during the growing season(April-November) on many grasses. As I wrote before, I will use pre on lawns that get weedy between November and April. I even used Specticle on a Zoysia lawn in October. That lawn had no crabgrass or broadleaves for many months. No snow in Hawaii, but that is the time of the year most likely to be cloudy, raining, and too cool for grass to grow properly.
 
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#9 ·
I think you'd be okay with Barricade (Prodiamine) as a November or Feb. app for centipede with a well established root system. You haven't mentioned Dimension (dithiopyr) as an option yet. Centipede is on the label and it's not as harsh of a root pruner as Barricade (prodiamine).

Perhaps this split-app mixup could work:

September: Simazine 2 quarts/acre
November: Simazine 1 quart/acre or Prodiamine (Barricade) .75lbs/acre
February: Barricade .75lbs/acre or Dimension WP .625 lbs/acre
March: Gallery + Dimension or Gallery + Simazine(not if Simazine used in both fall apps)

I know that seems complex, but it seems like an effective schedule for controlling poa annua and crabgrass in centipede with the least invasive root pruning. Thoughts?
 
#10 ·
Actually, Dimension is more of a root pruner. Moderate rates of Barricade are the least. This is related to how far down an application leaches into the soil. This is based on a slide show the guys from BASF presented. If I remember rightly, Pendulum and Surflan go the deepest and offer the strongest weed control. They are also the most severe root pruners. Dimension is in the middle. Barricade is the least. Such that Barricade can be used when establishing Bermuda fairways and roughs from sprigs. No other pre is suggested for that usage.
 
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Discussion starter · #13 ·
Let's be honest centipede will only look so good and will most always have a "apple green" tint.

I just want to apply products and timing effectively to give it the best chance and at the same time 100% confidence in my program that it will work unless untreated disease or winter kill gets it.
 
Discussion starter · #16 ·
WhiteStoneGuy said:
I fertilize in May. What chemical and fertilization timing works for you?
Click to expand...
I try not to apply apply on transitioning turf.

I think where most problems occur is post applications and not pre. To me using wrong pre is more a long term effect.
 
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#17 ·
Green doctor made done great points and good info on a homeowner centipede thread couple days agoThumbs Up
 
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#19 ·
What types of fungus control would be good?

Elaborate on Centipede Decline. Is it just combination of different issues?

I have been studying up on Centipede and reading about my questions but almost getting more confused, hence the questions.
 
#20 ·
Centipede is easy. Mow it reasonably high and understand it won't be dark green, and that it grows slowly. It keeps the weeds down fairly well compared to other grasses, but ultimately I never really needed a pre-emergent. For fertilizer, you really do not want to exceed 2 lbs of N per year max. I would recommend NOT applying more than 0.75 lbs of N per application personally though some companies like Scotts specifically have a 1 lb. N at the application rate on the bag.

If it is cool, you can use 2,4-D or even a 3-Way, but these often brown the Centipede temporarily when it gets warmer. One of the safest is Atrazine. Otherwise, I really like Triclopyr. It blasts away many weeds.
 
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