I was at my dealer the other day and saw the echo srm261t and asked what the guy thought of it. He said echos and the 261t are good for homeowners and light commercial use. He said redmax and shiny are much better for commercial use. My question is are they really commercial grade for full use? I mean the 261t has the same price tag as the redmax 2600s I don't like redmax trimmers. Not the best in my opinion. So is there any truth to this or are echos really good? I have stihl now and love em but do want to try echo or shiny later.
S man
The Echo 265T and 280T are absolutely full commercial trimmers. The most powerful in their class, thanks to the ProTorque gearbox (2:1 gear ratio). The 261T is no longer made by Echo and doesn't have their new Power Boost Vortex engine. I believe it has the Power Boost Tornado, which is a ton less powerful than the 265T.
Try a 280T. It's $40 more than the 265T and much more powerful.
Try a 280T. It's $40 more than the 265T and much more powerful.
Redmax is definitely a good brand. Their trimmers are lighter than Echos and much much lighter than Shindaiwa of the same engine size. Shindaiwa is too expensive!!! For the weight and price, you better of getting a Honda which is cheaper.
The SRM261 is good, it has a Tornado engine which have two compression rings vs the new 265 or 280 Vortex engines have only one ring. There is a big debate in another site about the longivity of those one ring enignes, the two rings are winning!!! I would let other prove it first.
From my understanding, Echo use catalytic converter where Redmax, Maruyame and Tanaka manage not having to use one. This translate to lighter and better engines.
There are a lot of people swear by SRM261, I think it is safe to buy. I would stay away from hybrid 4 cycle engines like Shindaiwa C4 or Stihl 4Mix because they require more maintenance. Get pure 2 cycles.
You ever look at Redmax CHTZ3001S? light, powerful. 29.5cc, 1.7 hp. I can get it in my dealer for $329
The SRM261 is good, it has a Tornado engine which have two compression rings vs the new 265 or 280 Vortex engines have only one ring. There is a big debate in another site about the longivity of those one ring enignes, the two rings are winning!!! I would let other prove it first.
From my understanding, Echo use catalytic converter where Redmax, Maruyame and Tanaka manage not having to use one. This translate to lighter and better engines.
There are a lot of people swear by SRM261, I think it is safe to buy. I would stay away from hybrid 4 cycle engines like Shindaiwa C4 or Stihl 4Mix because they require more maintenance. Get pure 2 cycles.
You ever look at Redmax CHTZ3001S? light, powerful. 29.5cc, 1.7 hp. I can get it in my dealer for $329
Well, let me start by saying I'm a dealer for both Echo and Redmax....
Having said that, I prefer the Echo machines overall.
The Redmax trimmers have some great features... better trigger design, typically a little lighter in weight.
The Echo trimmers are definitely commercial duty machines...particularly the SRM-265T and SRM-280T models. They have more power at the cutting head than any other machines in their class.
As for getting only one year out of a trimmer.... you should be able to get several years of reliable service out of a good trimmer... provided you don't abuse the hell out of it and you run 89 octane gasoline with a quality oil...at the right mix ratio.
Having said that, I prefer the Echo machines overall.
The Redmax trimmers have some great features... better trigger design, typically a little lighter in weight.
The Echo trimmers are definitely commercial duty machines...particularly the SRM-265T and SRM-280T models. They have more power at the cutting head than any other machines in their class.
As for getting only one year out of a trimmer.... you should be able to get several years of reliable service out of a good trimmer... provided you don't abuse the hell out of it and you run 89 octane gasoline with a quality oil...at the right mix ratio.
I've been looking this over closely... and in fact just started a thread in the other forum re: my equipment buy list for this spring. First, I'm a solo. I won't be abusing my equipment. I am looking at the Echo 265 vs. the Stihl fs90, and it's combi-tool counterpart.
My dealer was selling me the idea that the Stihl 4 stoke has a linear power curve vs. RPM, while the 2 stroke Echo has to be at near full RPM (logrithmic power curve)for any real power. BS or not? As of now, I lean towards the Echo 265. Same price as the Stihl FS90 at 299.
My dealer was selling me the idea that the Stihl 4 stoke has a linear power curve vs. RPM, while the 2 stroke Echo has to be at near full RPM (logrithmic power curve)for any real power. BS or not? As of now, I lean towards the Echo 265. Same price as the Stihl FS90 at 299.
Get the 265T. It's what, $20 more than the regular 265? No comparison! Unless you are getting the multi tool...
With the 265T, it has a 2:1 gear reduction, so for every two shaft rotations, the head rotates once. What this does is allow the engine to rev up to higher RPMs and sharply reduce bogging at the same time. Think of it like dropping a really low set of gears in your truck.
With the sharply increased power of the 265T and 285T, expect much better fuel economy than a less powerful larger displacement model.
With the 265T, it has a 2:1 gear reduction, so for every two shaft rotations, the head rotates once. What this does is allow the engine to rev up to higher RPMs and sharply reduce bogging at the same time. Think of it like dropping a really low set of gears in your truck.
With the sharply increased power of the 265T and 285T, expect much better fuel economy than a less powerful larger displacement model.
TOOLSHACK-- Sense you are a dealer what is your opinion of the Kawasaki KBL27B trimmer??? and the other Kawasaki tools??
If Echo is not a commercial product, than I don't know what one is. I do not run many Echos but that is not because I feel they are inferier to other brands, I just like some other brands better.
provided you don't abuse the hell out of it and you run 89 octane gasoline with a quality oil...at the right mix ratio.
Just wondering Toolshack why you state using 89 octane fuel? Maybe, I'm wrong but it seems that a two stroke engine wouldn't have the compression that could utilize the extra octane. Can someone explain why that would be better than regular @ 87? For the most part we run Shindaiwa and the manual states 87 octane or higher. Would it be worth the little extra $ for the boost in octane for these engines?
Just wondering Toolshack why you state using 89 octane fuel? Maybe, I'm wrong but it seems that a two stroke engine wouldn't have the compression that could utilize the extra octane. Can someone explain why that would be better than regular @ 87? For the most part we run Shindaiwa and the manual states 87 octane or higher. Would it be worth the little extra $ for the boost in octane for these engines?
I seen you said you do not like Redmax trimmers. I told a rep last week that I did not liked the way my 2600's bogged down so he let me try the new 2610. The fuel pump on these helped alot. I think it's called a maxcelerator pump. I'm glad some mfg's listen.
For trimmers I personally like the Stihls. Ive had a FS-250R two stroke for about a year now and I picked up a new FS-100RX 4-mix yesterday. So we will see how it works out. For the price and weight you cant beat the FS-100RX. I also have a ECHO- SRM-210 that is a p.o.s.
I cannot disagree more.
Currently I have fourteen Stihl 4-Mix FX-100RS trimmers, several of which are approaching 3+years old.
My crews run these trimmers at least 450 hours each per year in temperatures approaching extreme from a low of 25*F to well over 110*+.
My crews run at least 40 weeks wide open and these Stihl units haven't let me (the business owner) down once.
I have purchased and run everything from Echos, Stihls, Kawi's, Red Max, etc.
If you are expecting only one year out of a hand trimmer, your buying junk.
The 89 octane helps reduce preignition caused from hot spots. 2 strokes run very hot at the exhaust port, correct oil mix and fuel keeps the piston from melting on exhaust side. Also sometimes that preignition happens because of a glowing spark plug(caused from a slightly lean condition), and can put a hole in the top of the piston, a fuel with higher resistance to detonation helps prevent this.
I feel safe running 87 in a brand new 450 4 stroke dirtbike, but would never run less then premium in a 2 stroke- they are just to easy to blow up.
I use the Echo PAS-265 powerheads and I rarely have to rev the engine in the high rpm range for trimming or edging so I don't really see a benefit in the gear reduction.
For the others attachments, I think it would help with the power pruner and may be the hedge trimmer though.
I'm quite satisfied with Echo and even if they are a little cold blooded (all new EPA compliant equipment is), they always start a the first pull when hot...
I run echos. I'm a one man show and do 60 residential lawns and 4 big churches per week. They're great. Always start, always run. Durable. I've snapped the trigger a couple times by chucking it into the trimmer rack carelessly, but a new trigger is only a couple bucks...
As for lifespan, I run Walmart fuel mix and 85 octane gasoline. I'm 3 seasons into the pricier Home Depot version and 2 seasons into my 261T...
They're a solid machine...
As for lifespan, I run Walmart fuel mix and 85 octane gasoline. I'm 3 seasons into the pricier Home Depot version and 2 seasons into my 261T...
They're a solid machine...
I'd find another dealer. He obviously has no problem lying to your face, or he doesn't know what he's talking about. My guess is his margin is higher on the other brands.
Over 16 years I've had mixed results with Echo, one did die fairly early, but they're not "light commercial" except maybe their very bottom of the line straight shaft model. I have some blowers that lasted over 10 years, some trimmers 3-4.
Do your own research and buy what you want. The dealer has his own agenda, and in my experience it's rarely in line with yours.
Over 16 years I've had mixed results with Echo, one did die fairly early, but they're not "light commercial" except maybe their very bottom of the line straight shaft model. I have some blowers that lasted over 10 years, some trimmers 3-4.
Do your own research and buy what you want. The dealer has his own agenda, and in my experience it's rarely in line with yours.
Well, I have no great big beefs with Echo. They were there for me leading the pack with more powerful blowers in the days when the others were not.
However, I never did really get the commercial service out of them I was looking for. I never blew one up, locked one up, or worn one out. But there's a reason for that. For me, they never were reliable enough to make it into that territory with me. After a year or two, they were broke down more than I used them. I found out I just couldn't count on them to start when I pulled the rope, and I couldn't count on them to stay running to get the job done.
What I could count on was wrenching on them. Never any major issues. Just repetitive aggrivations. I'm not sure if I can blame it all squarely on Echo though. Maybe it was some to do with their materials suppliers for fuel delivery items.
Anyways, I finally got fed up with it and started cycling them all out.
It was a good decision for me. A lot less aggrivation.
Unless there has been some major advancement I'm unaware of.
On the catalytic converter issue.... suggestions floating around out there are a bit misleading actually.
Truth is, Tanaka uses a catalytic converter, even on their touted "purefire" engines.
Also, many Tanaka units are not made my Tanaka, or their engines are not. In reality, some are the same thing as the Maruyama units, which are also the same as the Husqvarna units, which are also the same as the Kawasaki units. Big collaboration there...... and I believe Kawasaki makes these like units.... I think...
Anyways, some choose to openly advertise converters, hoping to win over folks with cleaner emissions being implied. Others choose not to.... because most of us realize what converters actually do in order to clean emissions to meet standards.... nothing like having a red glowing oven of heat inside the muffler of an air cooled engine.
However, I never did really get the commercial service out of them I was looking for. I never blew one up, locked one up, or worn one out. But there's a reason for that. For me, they never were reliable enough to make it into that territory with me. After a year or two, they were broke down more than I used them. I found out I just couldn't count on them to start when I pulled the rope, and I couldn't count on them to stay running to get the job done.
What I could count on was wrenching on them. Never any major issues. Just repetitive aggrivations. I'm not sure if I can blame it all squarely on Echo though. Maybe it was some to do with their materials suppliers for fuel delivery items.
Anyways, I finally got fed up with it and started cycling them all out.
It was a good decision for me. A lot less aggrivation.
The two-ring engines are better, PERIOD.
Unless there has been some major advancement I'm unaware of.
On the catalytic converter issue.... suggestions floating around out there are a bit misleading actually.
Truth is, Tanaka uses a catalytic converter, even on their touted "purefire" engines.
Also, many Tanaka units are not made my Tanaka, or their engines are not. In reality, some are the same thing as the Maruyama units, which are also the same as the Husqvarna units, which are also the same as the Kawasaki units. Big collaboration there...... and I believe Kawasaki makes these like units.... I think...
Anyways, some choose to openly advertise converters, hoping to win over folks with cleaner emissions being implied. Others choose not to.... because most of us realize what converters actually do in order to clean emissions to meet standards.... nothing like having a red glowing oven of heat inside the muffler of an air cooled engine.
we run almost strictly echo fro like 25 yrs and never had probs. we usually get 35 yrs out a machine used every day. it is all about maintenance!!!!!!!
LAWNBUTCH... I don't have much experience with the Kawasaki 2-stroke equipment. From the little experience I do have...I'm not terribly impressed. The seem to be a little heavier than some other brands and don't feel as well balanced. Kawasaki's 2-stroke equipment is still fairly new to the marketplace... time will tell if it's a high quality product. One of the things to remember is that many manufacturers have a somewhat incestuous relationship. Many of them simply re-badge another brands' machine as their own... happens mostly with backpack blowers though.
ROB7233.... I recommend 89 octane or higher for one main reason. Higher quality fuels have more detergent in them. That will allow them to burn cleaner and help prohibit carbon buildup on top of the piston, in the exhaust port, and muffler. Running a cheap fuel, low quality oil, or the wrong ratio..or any combination of those things will surely have a negative effect in your 2 stroke engine. I've seen engines (various brands) as little as 1 year old come in with complaints of "idles fine, but won't run at full throttle...gradually got worse" or "I think my carb is going bad". First thing I do is a compression check.. it almost always is within spec. Next thing, I pull the muffler off, inspect the spark arrestor and exhaust port on the cylinder and check them both for carbon build-up. Almost every time, the exhaust port will be 30 -40% blocked. Sometimes it's a result of cheap fuel..sometimes a result of "if 50:1 is good, then more oil must be better". It's basically the same result as if you stuck a banana in the tailpipe of a small call....it's gonna run like crap. Anyways, it's an easy fix... run the piston to the top of the stroke and CAREFULLY scraper the carbon out of the exhaust port using a toothbrush or some dental tools. You can either discard or clean the spark arrestor using some Seafoam. I also will add some Seafoam to a fresh tank of fuel and run it through. It's amazing how well that stuff works at cleaning everything out.
I hope this helps.
ROB7233.... I recommend 89 octane or higher for one main reason. Higher quality fuels have more detergent in them. That will allow them to burn cleaner and help prohibit carbon buildup on top of the piston, in the exhaust port, and muffler. Running a cheap fuel, low quality oil, or the wrong ratio..or any combination of those things will surely have a negative effect in your 2 stroke engine. I've seen engines (various brands) as little as 1 year old come in with complaints of "idles fine, but won't run at full throttle...gradually got worse" or "I think my carb is going bad". First thing I do is a compression check.. it almost always is within spec. Next thing, I pull the muffler off, inspect the spark arrestor and exhaust port on the cylinder and check them both for carbon build-up. Almost every time, the exhaust port will be 30 -40% blocked. Sometimes it's a result of cheap fuel..sometimes a result of "if 50:1 is good, then more oil must be better". It's basically the same result as if you stuck a banana in the tailpipe of a small call....it's gonna run like crap. Anyways, it's an easy fix... run the piston to the top of the stroke and CAREFULLY scraper the carbon out of the exhaust port using a toothbrush or some dental tools. You can either discard or clean the spark arrestor using some Seafoam. I also will add some Seafoam to a fresh tank of fuel and run it through. It's amazing how well that stuff works at cleaning everything out.
I hope this helps.
I agree about the two ring issue. The claim of Echo (-----) shape ring the Votex engine produce less friction and better seal vs <------> shape of normal engine really never make sense to me. They all one point contact regardless of shape and when it wear in, both contact will flatten out and give good seal. I rather have a bigger engine with two rings to make up the little lost of power with two rings and use a little more gas. This is like choosing a 110 mpg car over 100mpg car!!! The claim of better material and tighter tolorance don't quite make sense either. Those are just cost, not technology that Echo trying to claim!!! You can use exactly the same material and get the same tolorance with two rings and make it better. As I said, we had a long thread talking about this issue in another site, the claim of one ring being equal never made the case. I went over the other site to ask because I felt there are people that were partial towards Echo here.
Please don't mistaken me trying to put Echo down. Echo is one of my three favorite brands. It just don't make sense. I have no reservation on their two rings Tornado engines *trucewhiteflag*
hell yeah echo is commercial grade. echo, stihl, redmax, their all good but echo is the same quality at more affordable prices.
Yep, Echo was cost cutting when they redesigned their engine with tighter tolerances to where there was no need for a second ring. After all, it's cheaper to manufacture something to tighter tolerances than to manufacture it with lower tolerances. And rings are what? $5? They'll be saving like $5 on every trimmer made!
:hammerhead:
I don't know how many ways I can say this. It's clear as day. What is the point of having two rings? Again, because there are looser tolerances, compression gets by one ring, so you have to have a second ring. However, two rings equal more friction than one ring--greater dissipation than one ring, but greater friction as well. With a single ring that captures all the necessary compression, there is no need for a second ring, therefore there's not as much friction (heat) and since there's not as much heat, there's not as much need for heat dissipation. Very simple concept.
Only time will tell. I already contribute to new technology ones.....I bought the Shindaiwa C4 blower with hybrid engine. I'll let other test this first.
It is absolutely not outrages to do all these to say $5. If the trimmer sell for $300, dealer get 50% margin. Company have to sell to dealer for $150. If it cost $75 to manufacture. Of $75, $35 for the engine, saving $5 is 5/75 or 6.67% of total saving, 5/35 or 14.2% saving on the engine!!!! It is not that small. The engineer that came out with this idea must have got a big bonus!!! I have been a engineer for many years. We fight over a 50 cents piece of transistor for an instrument that sold for $100,000!!!!!
This is like in auto. going from stamp steel hood to aluminum to say 25lb!! all the trouble for 25lbs. Going from cast iron to aluminum block to save 50lb. They sound ridiculous until you add all of them up!!!
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