i do know that Daihatsu makes vehicles. They were here in the states for a few years and left. Also I believe Toyota has a stake in the company as well. Have been seeing them offered on more and more mowers as of lately. Let us know what you find out.

 

I can not really help with the engines features or reliability, but this might be something to keep in mind:
The local Exmark dealer and the local Walker dealer (which has a diesel Kubota offered) both told me that in case of any repairs or adjustments outside of normal service (oil changes, filters) they would have to transport the mower to a diesel mechanic. The Walker dealer had an agreement with the local Kubota dealer, but the Exmark dealer did not know how or who would do repairs on the Daihatsu engine. They did say they could handle repairs on the Daihatsu Gas engine though. Just something to think about. I ended up with the Kubota ZD21 because I wanted a diesel and I wanted a dealer who could and would handle any problems with any aspect of the mower in-house.

 

We have three Scags with the 31hp turbo B&S/Daihatsu engine. It is the same as the Exmark's, but with a turbo. We've put about 200hrs on each with no problems. So far they have been strong motors. Diesels will last much longer than gas motors as long as they are well maintained.

 

The 27hp is underpowered.

 

I have heard from many people that this is the case with the 27hp Diesel on the 72" Lazer XP.

While I have never driven a Diesel XP, I have driven a 31hp Gas XP, and was quite impressed, though I really think that they will be thirsty being gas powered. With all the weight that comes along with a cast Iron block/heads on these motors, I feel it isn't worth it. Maybe they should offer the turboed version. I still cant understand the hydro powered cooling fan. My LC Lazer has an electric fan and has no problem whatsoever keeping cool (It NEVER fluctuates). I just cant understand the need for a hydraulic powered cooling fan?

I feel that Exmark SHOULD have considered Yanmar for their Diesel powered mowers, and gone with at least 30hp for the 72" decks.

I still think Yanmar should improve on their V-Twin Diesel and offer it in higher HP versions. Nice and compact, much lighter, etc.

Here's hoping!

 

I own a 2001 31hp. 60" Lazer XP, I love it. The Dihatsu engines are imported and supported through Briggs & stratton. Any B&S dealer can order parts but not all are qualified to work on them. So far no problems.

 

You could mow up a 30 degree hill at 6 MPH through 3-foot tall grass!

I drove a Gravely 272Z diesel today. The engine is a beast, nice to hear that turbo whistle!

Ken

 

In my opinion the best diesel for a mower is the Kubota. These engines run forever and are very dependable. Of course, to get one on a midmount you will have to buy a Grasshopper. I have two Grasshopper midmounts with Kubota engines. I tried the Exmark/ Daihatsu and the Dixie Chopper/Yanmar and the Bobcat/ Yanmar. None of the others can hold a candle to the Kubota- powered Grasshopper.

 

Mowingman,
Is the Kubota ZD18/ ZD21 /ZD28 not a mid mount ZTR??

 

Yes, but I did not count those as I don't think their stamped deck is as good as the decks on all the others. (Personal opinion)

 

These diesels cost considerably more, correct? How many gas engines are you guys typically going through on your current Z's?

 

I still fail to see the actual advantage of a welded deck over a 7 or 9 gauge stamped deck. Kubota and John Deere have been using them for better than 25 years and I do not see their reputation lacking. I am not saying a welded deck is inferior, but I am looking for printed testing that says welded is superior. IIRC, the origination of the welded deck was by small companies that could not afford the tooling to make stamped decks like the larger companies, not because their are problems with stamped decks. Some inexpensive residential mowers use cheap 14 gauge or even thinner stamped decks, which I agree is not sufficient for the abuse they are subjected to, but the 7-10 gauge steel used by most commercial mowers seems to hold up very well. If you have some information I am missing I would like to hear it, as I am always looking for more info.

 

Originally posted by scott's turf
These diesels cost considerably more, correct? How many gas engines are you guys typically going through on your current Z's?

Scott, I think you have to consider a few things with a diesel/gas comparison.
1. Most gas engines use air cooling, which requires tolerances between parts to be greater due to the expansion of components. Air cooled engines temps are not regulated, so they have a much wider operating range of temps. This also shortens engine life, increases engine noise (the liquid cooling jackets act as a noise insulator) and lowers HP compared to liquid cooled engines (gas engines included).

2. Diesels will last much longer which is the main point most people try to justify the purchase with. For a homeowner it is really not a huge issue, but to a commercial operator, the down time for engine overhauls might be more costly than the repair itself, so a diesel makes sense.

3. Diesels get much better fuel economy. Once again, for a homeowner (unless he/she is a environmentalist) the savings are insignificant, but they add up quickly when run 8 hours a day by a LCO.

4. Resale value on diesels is higher (of course since you paid more to start with, but still look at the depreciation difference in your total cost of ownership).

5. Diesels (in general, not as a rule) put out more torque than comparable gas engines, they make rated HP at a much lower RPM. Torque is important in thick tall grass to help maintain blade speed.

6. Most gas engines use carbs instead of fuel injection. These are more polluting, less powerful, and require more maintainence than injected engines.

I would say (only my opinion) that the order of preference from best to worst would be:

1. Diesel
2. Liquid cooled gas
3. EFI gas
4. Carb. Gas

If anyone has more info, or a different viewpoint, I look forward to your response.

 

Shumdit.

I agree with your statements about engine life, etc.

However, we have to realize that there isn't a ZTR made today that will last the lifespan of todays 3cyl diesels. Most ZTR's (I'm talking the GOOD ones) will be totally worn out in 3-5000 hrs. Yeah you can weld, rebuild, re-bush, re-bearing, etc., till your hearts content, but the bottom line is you have TOO good of an engine when you go with the diesel.

These Diesel engines cost anywhere from $2-4000 more than a comparable gas engined ZTR.

Then there's the weight issue. The weight of these engines is 420 - 534 lbs more! That is a CONSIDERABLE amount of "extra" weight to be carrying around on nice turf.

I'm all for Diesel engines, but they need to make them more compact and a lot less weight before I'd opt for one on a ZTR.

 

Thomas,
I can not really disagee on the mower vs. engine life issue, as I think it is possible to get more life from the engine than usable life from the mower itself. That said, I also think it highly probable that a air-cooled Briggs or Kohler will require overhaul multiple times in the usable life of the mower it is used on, so I guess neither is perfect. As far as weight, here are comparisons from manufacturers specs:

Exmark Liquid Cooled Gas w/60 deck : 1213 lbs.
Kubota ZD 21 diesel w/60 deck 1393 lbs.

Unfortunately, The Daihatsu diesel (and gas engine for that matter) are another story at 1550 lbs. w/60 deck

That is only a difference of 180 lbs. which divided by the tread section does not increase psi weight on the ground significantly. If that much weight makes a difference, I think all LCOs should go on a diet to protect the lawns they ride on!

 

Exmark Lazer Z (LZ25KC604) 60" deck 25hp Kohler = 1031 lbs

Exmark Lazer Z-XP (LZ27DD604) 60" Deck 27hp Diesel = 1565

Thats 534 lbs! Thats what I call going on a BIG diet


Since Kubota doesn't make an aircooled gas engined ZTR, you really cant compare them. Their ZD28F weighs 1481lbs! Still a lot of weight to be pushing around.

My LC 60" Lazer weighs 1213lbs from the factory, but when I took off 2 of the 3 front weight blocks (at least 30 lbs each), I figure I'm down to around 1150 lbs, and with a much more maneuverable and balanced mower than what came from the factory.

I hope I struck a balance when I purchased my LC. An engine that is relatively inexpensive, light weight, fuel efficient, and long (enough) lasting for the mower itself.

 

Yes, I agree if you are going with gas, at least get liquid cooling if possible.

 

I agree with TLS. Will these mowers outlast a diesel engine? I know my F250 won't, but that is another issue. I have two bobcat walkbehinds. One has a new kaw 14hp engine and the other is on the original. Pretty much everything on the mower has been replaced except the frame. And if I didn't have a welder even the frame would have been. Are these Z's built to get the full life out of these engines. If the machine lasted long enough to go through two gas engines than the cost might be compareable. How do the liquid cooled engines hold up? I can imagine that the dust and grass would do a number on the radiator possibly causing the engine to over heat.

 

I have been told kawi took the dust/dirt issue into consideration when designing the radiator, and I know the Kubota has 2 seperate removable screen filters for their radiator. I think the LC is the best way to go with gas engines and with proper care should last considerably longer than an air-cooled model. I am still a diesel fan though, so that is where I will put my $$.

 

Grasshopper 61" with 25hp Kohler : 1060lb.
Grasshopper 61" with 21hp Kubota diesel :1220lb
Only 160 lb. difference.
Fuel consumption in heavy mowing conditions (my mowers).
Kohler 25hp 2 gallons/hr. or more
Kubota 21hp 0.5 gallons/hr
Fuel prices
Offroad diesel $ 0.88/ gal
Gasoline $1.36/gal.
I will be buying more diesels in the future.

 

Mowingman,

Wow! 1/2 gal/hr ? Thats some good milage!

I get between 1-1.4 gal/hr on my LC Kawi. Thats light easy mowing to full out pasture mowing.

I used to run small Yanmars in my JD frontrunners, and never checked gal/hr on them, but they had almost 13 gal capacity and I could only get about two days out of it. Hated it when I ran a tank out With the Lazer, I run one tank till its dry then quick switch/ choke when it starts to sputter.

Thats a pretty good price for the dyed diesel, how much do you have to buy to get it that cheap? It hovers around a $1/gal here. Need to buy 500gal to get into the low .90's.

I get a $0.184 credit back on every gal of offroad gasoline from the IRS.

Thats a nice lightweight diesel mower, wish other companies would put theirs on a diet like that!

 

TLS,
I buy my diesel at a fuel distributor here in town. I only buy 5 - 10 gal at a time in cans. If I buy a 300 gal storage tank he will deliver in bulk at about $.03/gal cheaper. He owns his on tanker trucks and gets his fuel directly from a big pipeline distribution terminal. His prices are always the best in town.
Grasshopper really has some well designed machines. They have used Kubota diesels on theirs for many years so I guess they know how to keep the weight down. My two diesels also have pretty wide tires to spread the weight. They will go through soft places that I could not even think of taking my gasoline powered ZTR's. (except for the Chopper with the Turfboss tires)