Go here: EPEC Nitrogen - Controlled-Release Fertilizer
At the top EPEC is: "premium, high-quality polymer-coated urea"
Under 60-day: "excellent replacement for PCSCU"

So EC Grow is replacing PCSCU (or PCU) with PCU? WTF

PCU and PCSCU fertilizers have been around for quite some time. They are just putting a coating around some of the nitrogen in the bag. Thicker coating => longer time to break it down and release.
Now manufacturers are trying to time exactly how long it will take for the nitrogen to be released. I would not trust anything beyond 90 days. There will always be an excuse from the manufacturer: Too much rain, too many bugs, too much heat- that's why it broke down too fast.

 

Go here: EPEC Nitrogen - Controlled-Release Fertilizer
At the top EPEC is: "premium, high-quality polymer-coated urea"
Under 60-day: "excellent replacement for PCSCU"

So EC Grow is replacing PCSCU (or PCU) with PCU? WTF

PCU and PCSCU fertilizers have been around for quite some time. They are just putting a coating around some of the nitrogen in the bag. Thicker coating => longer time to break it down and release.
Now manufacturers are trying to time exactly how long it will take for the nitrogen to be released. I would not trust anything beyond 90 days. There will always be an excuse from the manufacturer: Too much rain, too many bugs, too much heat- that's why it broke down too fast.

I too would like to see some non-partial research into these 'Duration' type products and if they feed like the say they do. Also want to hear from guys on here who use them in the field. I'm not going to discount them yet, just need more data.

 

I do use a 50%+ slow release in July. I'll use EC Grow, Lebanon - whichever is cheaper from my local supplier.

 

This past summer I saw a post on lawnsite from someone down in Texas (I know completely different climate) complain about a Duration type product not feeding long enough. Manufacturer blamed it on the climate. I think manufacturer said too much heat. Not positive, but I thought the product was OneAp. I searched, but can't find the post.

I believe coatings work, maybe just not to the claimed effectiveness. Too many wild cards (rain, wind, heat, bugs, etc) to guarantee.

Pretty sure manufacturer is just coating the nitrogen with differing thicknesses poly. The more coating, the longer it takes to wear away and release what's contained inside. So a bag that feeds for 60 days may have:

• 30% nitrogen uncoated => immediate feed
• 30% nitrogen coated with .1 ml of poly => breakdown and feed in 30 days
• 40% nitrogen coated with .2 mil of poly => breakdown and feed in 60 days

 

You are right on that, and that is what EC Grow is doing. And I also agree, they aren't being deceptive, maybe more 'overselling' their products based on ideal weather conditions for coating breakdown. I have some graphs on N release from EC Grow, and they are based on 68 degree weather. Ok, thats like spring weather. When it gets much more hot and humid OR if you get in a big rainy streak, surely those coatings will release much faster.

Not saying that they aren't good products, but maybe adjust for these factors on your own accord.

 

I looked into Surfcote by Knox Fertilizer and talked in depth with the manufactures rep. I also talked to some golf course superintendents that use it. The superintendents didn't think they were getting the longevity. I think it's a good idea, but I would only use this if the customer had prepaid for the season. It's a big cost up front. A company near me relies on this and some of the feedback i hear is not that good. I think it comes down to doing the same stop schedule for weeds and maybe do some foliar micro's to keep things humming along.

 

I too agree the theoretical longevity may not be had. But do your own research and compensate accordingly, and then see if the $ and labor savings are there to give it a go. Labor savings being a biggie, can you get by with one less app of N per season and get relatively the same results? Im thinking about using this with Acelepryn and Dimension Rd 1, then just going weed control Rd 2. Massive savings in effort not having to pitch bags Rd 2, when it gets hot out. Thats worth something. And turf up here doesn't really need fed too much spring/early summer anyway.

 

/www.facebook.com/search/top?q=ec grow
may not do you any good but i seen this the otherday

 

What is it? It just went to the reg FB page for me?

 

What is the cost per K of applying the double combo product?

 

I'll get back with you on that. Need to Calc that, then the per K savings on Rd 2, not having to spread N or grub control for that round.

 

It sounds like a great plan. The one thing that I ran into doing my research is the accuracy of the app itself. I know that there are times my apps can get off one time but never show because of the frequency of the app schedule. From what I understand it the rate needs to be exact throughout the lawn. Hard to really see much of a problem but it might be a little more time consuming on round 1. I loved the idea for doing the add-ons through the summer. Humic, kelp. micro's, fungicides, PGR's etc. It can free up time to do more advanced agronomy while the nitrogen is spooning itself out.

 

Agree but I'm not too worried about it. I usually only have rate issues when applying in high heat and humidity i.e. the Accuway in the Spyker hopper starts to cake with fert dust and the rate gets thin...so then you up the dial and, BANG, the cake breaks loose and all the sudden you are overapplying. I hate that. But with this CAD product, will be applied by mid May when cooler out so no real issues with caking and the Spyker will pitch pretty consistent.

One thing I am going to do is reserve this CAD stuff for decent and better lawns. I'm also buying a single skid of regular fert and Barricade to use earlier spring on some commercial lawns and residentials where the lawns are, frankly, not that great. Once the reg Rd 1 stuff is gone, then the CAD will go down. This will help ensure the Dimension will last as long as I need it to.

 

I'll be following the progress of this plan to look at next year. I just think its good agronomy to start and potentially frees up time for upselling product customers would want.

 

I put my order in today for 3 pallets of 26-0-5 with 90% EPEC, .15 Dim, and .058 Acel. The price per bag makes you gulp up front but I will be happier when I am running Rd 2 with no granular spread. I will run it at 10k sq ft per bag which applies 1.3 lbs N/K. Should give me 3 months feed, slowly.

 

I'm in West Michigan. Have used their 2-app products on all properties for 2 seasons, this year being the third. You have to apply it perfectly, at the proper rate. No skimping or skipping. The first round feeds well in to July. Deep green color. No bursts of growth. I've gotten more compliments using these products than anything else.

 

Sounds good! I went with the 3 month CAD product first round. As long as your rate is on and your spreader is working right, don't see how you could mess an app of that stuff up any more than any other fert product out there. I'm sure the critical part is to spread the CAD so that the Dimension and Acelepryn are going down at the right rate.

 

Thanks upnorthmi! I am following this thread and one of my concerns was application accuracy. I've tried to get as much information as possible and application accuracy was a concern. One suggestion expressed to me was to cut the rate in half and do a cross pattern. What a pain for round one!

 

Shouldn't have to do that. Just get your spreader tuned up and should be fine.

 

OK I have a few minutes to update on my usage of EC Grow CAD products with EPEC. Disclaimer: this was a CRAPPY drought year so the full effects of the products, esp the time coating release N, were probably not optimized.

Regardless, I REALLY like the savings in labor using CAD on Round 1. Like REALLY like it. No more pitching bags on Round 2 when it is starting to get hot out. Liquid weed control only.
Did not have issues with grubs at all. Did not feel I had too many issues with crab breakthrough either using the Dimension....maybe a few of my weaker lawns had some spotty breakthrough around walks/drives, burnt out spots in the lawn, etc. Nothing major. Maybe didnt do quite as good of job as Barricade would have, but not a deal breaker.

I am tinkering with changing the back half of my season program as well. Instead of a standard 50% PCSCU fert for Rd 3 (early fall) and a final winterizer fert for Rd 4 (late fall), possibly eliminate the winterizer fert and use EPEC 90 for Rd 3 to cover feeding the remainder of the season. Maybe start my early fall round just a bit later than I normally would (mid Sept?) Then would only be feeding the turf twice per season....anyone else out there do this now?

The way I figure, if you get nearly equal results but can pitch half the fert bags, and the cost is similar both ways, why not do it?

 

Thanks for the update. I keep circling back to the extended release products. On warm turf I fertilize 3x a year. If I could go with 2x and then the 3rd being something easy/cheap like micros that be great.

even an extend release N and K to get fescue through the heat of summer would be nice.

 

This season I tried the "one and done" EPEC on my back yard and I don't think it performed quite as good as the rest of my lawn. My lawn is only about 2 years old since seeding but it's in real good shape. The back yard is about 8000 sqf but the entire lawn is about 2 acres. I did the "one and done" in the backyard and did my normal 4 fert apps on the rest of the lawn. The backyard performed OK but didn't do quite as well as the rest of the lawn. This year was very dry for us so maybe that was a contributing factor. I am going to try the same test next season.

I used EPEC formulations in 3 out of 4 of my fert apps this past season and I was impressed. The lawns did better than they did when I was using meth urea for slow and I was using the same analysis on all apps as previous years (just different slow release).

I was very happy with EPEC products except for the "one and done" product. I'll be using them again.

 

Cool. I dont think id ever go one and done either. Poor weather conditions can poop out a fert app without getting its full benefit. If you apply 2-4 times a season at least you are diversifying your bet.

 

Lets bump this up for northern turf guys. Since its been like 50 degrees here all week long and no snow (oddest damned mid winter weather I've seen in 20 yrs living in SE MN), doing some heavy duty planning for the upcoming season.

I certainly plan to use EC Grow's EPEC products again. My back thanks them 10x over - pitched SO many less bags last season with little difference in results - although it was a pretty bad drought year so the full effectiveness of the EPEC products probably was not realized. Probably farted a little money in the wind with EPEC last year due to bad weather.
I am toying with the following for my mainstay 4 visit customers.

Rd 1: EPEC 90 day product with Dim and Acelepryn and spot weed control
Rd 2: Weed Control only
Rd 3: Straight Fert - EPEC 60 day/regular 50-75% poly coat fert, and Weed Control
Rd 4: Winterizer Fert
(This is what I did last season for the most part)

OR

Rd 1: EPEC 120-180 day product with Dim and Acelepryn and spot weed control
Rd 2: Weed Control only
Rd 3: Weed Control plus perhaps a micros add or some sort of a late summer 'kick' for lawns without a full fert app?
Rd 4: Winterizer Fert - EPEC 60 or a good high % poly coat regular fert

For the 2nd idea, any thoughts on a nice little 'kicker' for lawns on Rd 3 that isn't horribly expensive nor a pain in the arse to apply as part of a fert round?
Our soils here are calcareous, so anything I could run to enhance nutrient uptake in the plant and avoid soil tie-up would be warranted.

I plan on going to a Conference late Feb in which EC Grow will be there. I'd really like to ask them more about the longer duration EPEC products and how well they REALLY time-distribute N in a variety of weather conditions.

 

I would not use EPEC for a winter fertilizer. You do not need a slow release fert at that time....unless you're putting it down a couple months before winter dormancy.

 

I'd actually use it late fall as a carry over. Coated product would sit and wait for warmer spring weather. I know there'd be some variables involved as to how much of it actually successfully carries over.

 

IMO, you'd better off applying 1.5 pounds/1000 of N from straight urea. It'd be better for the grass and cheaper.

 

Point noted, Im not done fine tuning this yet...

 

You will most likely need the kicker if you use the 180 day stuff. We get 75-85 days out of our 90 day applications on a normal year. An over waterer or rainy period and it’s less. Just a lot of variables on the 180 days stuff.

Also have to agree with the pricing you are better off not using EPEC for winterizer. We use EPEC 90 2 apps a year here in Nebraska with great success.

 

Thanks for the input. I contacted EC Grow and one of their reps said the N release is soil temp dependent only. Water/moisture level in the soil does not have a significant impact on N release.
I want to believe him BUT......man if you get flooding rains it just seems like that would trim the life somewhat.

I like your dual EPEC 90 program. Would certainly work here in MN if it works fine in your longer season there in NE. Id apply EPEC 90 with CAD Rd 1, Weed Control only Rd 2, EPEC 90 Rd 3, then ???? Rd 4. I'd need to find a good add on for the mid-late fall app. Certainly spot weed control, but by mid to late Oct you don't get much more weed germination at that point in the season.

 

The company I work for in western Wisconsin/eastern Minnesota in the St. Croix valley area used the 180 day epec last year with some really good results. Now being that the last 2 years have been pretty much drought conditions with a majority of our customers (around 1000 fert accounts) on watering restrictions, it proved to be a really good product. The best results being customers who were mainly on well who had no watering restrictions. Our company also got to go to Eau Claire, WI and tour their factory. I'll tell you the people there seemed to not only be just nice, accommodating and genuine people, but they also all seemed to stand behind and really love what they were making. The workers seemed happy, and sounded like they were treated pretty well as far as pay and benefits, and even some of the guys were telling us about they take the product home and love it for their lawns. All in all after the factory tour and using their product in far from ideal conditions I fully stand behind all of their products and have seen very positive results Another thing I might mention is that they said they would make any fertilizer with any kind of additive we wanted for us custom. So currently this year we have 180 day 35-0-6 with barricade herbicide in it, 180 day 35-0-10 for our customers who have or are planning on any aeration overseeds, and for our economy program customers who only do 1 or 2 apps we have a 60 day with dimension crabgrass preventer can't recall what nitrogen content that has of the top of my head I actually haven't had to apply any yet. They also told us just because it will provide nutrients for a proven 180 days, and when I say proven I mean they actually have years of product testing they did before they ever released it(my boss heard about and was watching this company for 5 years until they released the product)doesn't mean you cant apply a 2nd app of fert if you feel the yard needs it. We certainly did as some of our lawns needed that immediate nitrogen boost as it was getting towards fall. Lastly I just learned by reading the label actually that the pre-emergent fertilizer with barricade in it can be laid down in a fall application after the temps reach freezing point but before the ground freezes and it doesn't activate until ground temps rise again making it the earliest possible way of getting pre-emergent down ultimately I assume stopping weeds before they start. Sorry for such a long write up but I figured since I have some experience and first hand knowledge I would share as an unbiased opinion, well maybe slightly biased as I have not toured other factories that produce fertilizer.

 

Dang thats a great testimony. Id love to tour EC Grow as well. Im loving on EPEC and Rd 1 CAD. I kinda wish I would have went with the 120 day instead of 90. I may even use EPEC for early fall, 90 likely, and not throw fert on the late fall app and do something alternative. Gotta figure out what though.

 

I'm hesitant to really promote it because then the competition will eventually move in that direction. It's a no-brainer. I'm using the 120 day CAD as well as version with just dimension. Lift bags twice a year. I tested 30 lawns last year without telling the customers just to see how long the first app would last. I didn't reapply until mid-August (1st app April) and some of them could've gone a bit longer.

 

How many yards did you do this on?

 

If you're up in the air about something to put down for one of the apps we put down potash. Now the thing with potash is that you can put down anywhere from like 1 to a million lbs per 1k (exaggerating) but you get the idea. Not sure how many guys do soil samples but I can't imagine trying to coordinate 1000 soil tests being sent to the university, getting the results back, then doing exactly what each lawn truly needs to have the right nutrient levels along with the right pH etc. Do I wish we did that, yes, but i am weird about that **** I like to do things that make sense not just kinda willy nilly put down some potash without really knowing the exact conditions beforehand. I've actually been looking into developing some sort of test that doesn't have to involve the university but yet isn't your dollar store soil tester either. I haven't really seen much for in-between or for us "pros" who value time and fast results. Unless one of you guys knows of such product.

 

I'm thinking about trying EPEC products this winter and next season on lawns.
Also, I'm based in the Husker state.
Any recommendation from past success or failures with this family of products?

Thank you,

 

Really like the EPEC CAD 90 day product we use for Rd 1. Acelepryn and Dim all go down Rd 1, frees Rd 2 for weed control only. I may move it to CAD 120 day this season. Early fall may do a EPEC 90 day then late fall just spot spray for remaining weeds and something like micros, etc...not sure yet.