I would just put the wall block on whatever plane the rest of the patio is and run the patio right over the top of them making one continuous surface hiding the “walls”. Alternatively, can you grade the yard to remove the step?

 

Thanks for your feedback! I would prefer to slope the side wall block at 2% and lay pavers on top but have seen opposing viewpoints on how "level" wall blocks should be placed for a raised patio surface.

We looked at grading the yard to increase the slope before and after the patio but the small size of the yard means there is not much to work with. One of our neighbors a few houses down took that approach and we don't see that working too well for us.

 

Probably should be in the “homeowner assistance” section.

 

Sorry I missed seeing the "Homeowner Assistance Forum". Should I repost or is there a way to move the thread? Thanks

 

I don’t really want to get into an assist on a DIY project, but I would grade the yard to prep, then just extend my base a bit around the edges and bring in dirt after I was done (or use what was excavated) to grade away from the patio. All that work you’re wanting to do for a 7” difference isn’t worth it.

I also wouldn’t put much if any slop to the patio at all. (1%) Flat will drain. No bigger than you’re building, water isn’t going to be an issue.

 

Yeah this advice is spot on. 7 inches is nothing. A couple years ago we did a patio that butted up to a basement sliding door and was surrounded on slopes and walls on all sides, kinda like a bathtub. Because of circumstances I don't need to go into, we set our patio at 1/10% slope, so basically level. I was a bit paranoid for a few weeks, but after a few good 1" plus rains we had no issue and I relaxed.
Of course, we graded the level of the excavation properly to drain away from the house and used 1/4-10 gravel as our screed bed, which drains really fast and can hold a lot of water. No poly sand, just the old fashioned stuff.
Been two years and no call backs.

 

And haul all that rock to the building site.

 

We are planning to add a DIY paver patio to our backyard along with some raised garden beds as shown in this rendering we made:

I believe @Mitty87 had an entire thread about this same issue last year you might check out....There are plenty of options

 

I'll add to that last post, that this house was already on a slope, on somewhat sandy loam soils that drain pretty well. I wouldn't try to get away with no patio slope if it was flat ground on heavy clay...

 

I think an important note here is, it doesn’t appear they are attaching the patio to the house. I wouldn’t worry much about slope on it.

I just figure to build a block patio like I would if I was pouring concrete: As far as how to treat the slope or crown, you approach it the same way. On a little patio like that, not next to a house or building, flat is fine. Slight crown or a little slope would be ok too, but I’m talking 1/4” to 1/2” in ten feet. Just my opinion. As long as you don’t build it low in the center, it will drain off all 4 sides.

 

6+1=9.375 🤔

You don’t put the pavers level with the existing soil you know…..

 

The pavers are 60mm thick which gives us 6 + 1 + 2.375 = 9.375. Unless I'm missing something there.

 

Yeah I’m curious too, because I would jump on this job. Unless there’s some difficulty you haven’t divulged.

 

$$$$$

 

I wonder if the first company has switched to open grade and chip for the bedding layer. It’s how permeable patios have been built but more companies are switching to that method on their traditional installations. Your job is really straight forward and very simple for a competent company. As far as the $1000 yearly resealer, that would certainly turn me off, but doesn’t surprise me.

 

On a permeable base, you still put in the bedding layer rock. You just use chip instead of sand for screed. If companies are using chip as bedding, they’re going to have a lot of issues in a few years. Just like any good foundation, you have to build on rock. Chip does not negate using base rock.

 

11 x 16 and they want $1,000 per year to seal it......

 

I'd have the company that was like $6,000 build this thing before I committed to paying $1,000 a year to seal it.

You should either wait for a competent company to do this and be willing to pay for it or just get the cheap company to come in and do it but realize it may not be perfect. But that would be okay because you'd be saving a bunch of money.

You're probably better off spending your time monitoring the cheap company and ensuring that their contract is in order versus building this thing yourself.

It's very common to underestimate the time and effort that a project like this will take the average homeowner. Professionals miscalculate things like this all the time. So they average homeowner hasn't even more difficult challenge and forecasting exactly what a project like this will take.

Do you have tradesman experience? What do you do for a living?

 

You should either wait for a competent company to do this and be willing to pay for it or just get the cheap company to come in and do it but realize it may not be perfect. But that would be okay because you'd be saving a bunch of money.

We are continuing our search to locate a competent company and my wife found a new one for me to call on Monday. So hopefully something will come of that. I

As you suggest, we could also go with the company that seemed to be winging it and make sure all the details are locked down in a construction specification document. The contract would need to allow me to inspect the work as they do it and ensure that they adhere to the specification (but that might make me one of those customers that everyone hates ). Surprisingly, they were not the cheapest - the cheapest was the one that seemed to be very competent but then was swamped with work and could not take us on (perhaps not charging enough for what they do?)

Do you have tradesman experience? What do you do for a living?

Right now I work in IT managing cloud servers. But I've been involved with construction ever since I was a teenager through some volunteer programs as well as helping relatives build home additions. So while I'm not a tradesman, I have worked with many trades over the years and thus have a little bit more understanding than most homeowners. So far the closest I've come to building a raised paver patio was helping build a large concrete patio that had footers and was raised on one side. All excavated by shovel with no machinery so I remember it being a lot of digging and moving dirt.

 

My terminology may have been confusing. By open grade I was referring to base rock with no fines, not lack of base rock.

 

Don’t prepay for annual sealing. It’s a racket. If they do it right and use polymeric sand, it won’t need sealed again for several years.

 

Today I spoke with another contractor who is also putting the pavers directly on crushed concrete base. He says "this is the only way to have a really strong foundation". Like the first company we contacted, he has good reviews. So perhaps this unusual method somewhat works in here FL? We don't have the freeze/thaw cycles but do get a lot of rain through the summer so I'm not comfortable with skipping the bedding layer.

 

We don't have the freeze/thaw cycles but do get a lot of rain through the summer so I'm not comfortable with skipping the bedding layer.

Why? Had bad experience with skipping it on all the other paver patios you installed?
You can get crushed concrete in different sizes. The bedding layer is just for making the pavers easy to level. I’m not convinced they don’t use anything between the crushed concrete and the pavers, but if he can level them, I see no issue with it.

Can he provide pictures or references?

 

There was a thread posted a couple or more years ago about this practice in Florida being quite common. I'm not sure why, but you can search the thread, or glean thru the hardscape forum, its not very active so you wont have to go very far back.
I am at the point that I definitely will never use a sand screed bed again, stopped doing that 5 years ago and never gone back. I would hate to try and set pavers on a compacted 3/4 minus roadbase, which is what we use for the sub base, but maybe its doable. We do 4 to 5 inches 3/4 minus roadbase, then one inch screed bed of what we call 1/4 - 10. 1/4 inch clean gravel down to #10 screen, so no fines... works great, drains great, but we also do not have frost heave here.
Guess you are either going to have to trust this new contractor or wing it yourself...
Not sure square footage, but plan on this taking way longer than you think if doing it yourself.
Or just get out of Florida....

 

No paver base in FL?

Looks like OP you already found this old thread as I see you posted recently on it.
If I were you, I'd go directly to a paver supplier, be humble, and ask them what they recommend for their products installation

 

Nothing against you or your comment but in my opinion the theme in Florida seems cheap is the main criteria

Quality and long lasting seem to be a last thought or priority in my observations from reading here

 

If you live in a neighborhood I’m sure there’s paver work all over. Ask around, find some jobs that were done a few years ago and if they still look good it will give you a sense of what you’re getting. Florida is the land of cheap customers and cheap contractors from what I gather. Also, what you read on the internet doesn’t always apply to your location. Sometimes locals have to work with the available materials and they have created a process by trial and error. If you talk to a contractor that’s been in business for a while and has a couple references you may feel better about it. No contractor wants to deal with call backs on patio work, it’s a big loser.

 

If you live in a neighborhood I’m sure there’s paver work all over. Ask around, find some jobs that were done a few years ago and if they still look good it will give you a sense of what you’re getting.

Sometimes locals have to work with the available materials and they have created a process by trial and error. If you talk to a contractor that’s been in business for a while and has a couple references you may feel better about it.

This is excellent advice. Our neighborhood is new so all the paver work we have looked at here has been in regards to the initial workmanship. We'll see if the contractors can provide references for older jobs and these should give us an idea of the longevity of the materials and process they are using. Thanks.

 

Today we had a new contractor out to look at the job and he actually screeds in a bedding layer for the pavers. Now waiting for his quote to come back as well as references.

 

We got the quote back and it is interesting. The contractor indicates that their crushed limestone paver base thickness varies from 2 to 4 inches based on the grade. Possibly this reduces the need to do much excavating? Not sure what to make of it.

We are still waiting for one contractor to get back to us and have yet another potential contractor to contact.

 

I take back what I said about jumping all over this job for you. You are far too finicky. I'd probably pass. I'd be afraid you would be standing out in the yard watching, questioning everything I did and wanting a detailed explanation for everything. I don't need that headache.

 

🤡

 

Looks like a mediocre attention to detail, and that strip of grass between the patio and house really bothers me. Where did they fall in the pecking order of price?

 

Yes, the strip of grass does not look great. 😬 We are in the process of putting a raised garden bed between the patio and house along with other landscaping.

They did the job for $5800 and was one of two contractors right in the middle of quotes which ranged from $3000 - $8000.

The result is disappointing. We were able to look at previous jobs by this contractor and they looked reasonably good. When asked, the contractor described installing pavers in line with accepted standards - but then execution on our job fell short. For example, we were removing the grass between the patio and the house and found that they didn't extend the paver base out and the edging was anchored in the grass. We checked the other edges and they appear to be fine but I feel like we will find other issues that need correcting.

 

You are not programed to respond in this manner, get your software updated and try again.....silly bots.....🤖

 

I ran into this same issue on my sloped yard and ended up using a short retaining wall with proper compaction behind it to keep things solid. Drainage was a big deal too—used some perforated pipe and gravel to help. Also, for furniture that fits well on a raised patio and doesn't add too much weight, hereæs the store you can visit. Found a few lightweight sets there that worked great.