I had an outlaw 61” with a Kohler 31hp several years ago. I was irritated with my local jd dealer and bought it on impulse. It was an excellent machine, I was very hard on it and did normal repairs on it, belts and one spindle bearing. I replaced it at 1300 hrs with a jd 930m. The only reason I didn’t continue on with the bb is the dealer sold and did away with the bb line. Now I’m irritated with jd again and looking to change colors. I feel the outlaw line are decent commercial mowers for the price.

 

I had an outlaw 61" with a Kohler 31hp several years ago. I was irritated with my local jd dealer and bought it on impulse. It was an excellent machine, I was very hard on it and did normal repairs on it, belts and one spindle bearing. I replaced it at 1300 hrs with a jd 930m. The only reason I didn't continue on with the bb is the dealer sold and did away with the bb line. Now I'm irritated with jd again and looking to change colors. I feel the outlaw line are decent commercial mowers for the price.

I appreciate the feedback. Some give the mower a bad rap, and maybe I am missing something. Thing looks solid to me. I do like this dealer although they are newer. Just hope they stick around if I decide to buy. But honestly as hard as I run one, after 3 years I have to look at another one. So they don't have to stay in business forever. I don't like it when I have to start throwing parts at one unless I have 2 units, then I don't mind as much. Gotta stay in the field.

I will kick myself if I make a mistake, but I guess you never know until you try something else. I was almost sold on Scag when I bought my last Exmark, but my dealer closed up and the Scag dealer we have in town now, I wouldn't buy anything except maybe a small part from if I am just close by. They are rude and don't care. So, I went back with the Exmark. I do love the Exmark dealer I have though. I will decide soon I guess, it's a tough decision. Thanks for the response!

 

I wouldn’t be scared of the bad boy at all I just don’t have a dealer close. There are several in my small town and a couple of the part time guys use them exclusively. It’s all in your dealer.

 

I’ve been cutting lawns for close to 30 years and I’ve used almost every brand of mower. Ran toro for a while but after the bad hydro problems with the hydro system and other issues on the grandstands, and everyone had the same problems, I was done with toro. Saw the badboy mowers but was skeptical because of the price. Generally, you get what you pay for. Went over it with a fine tooth comb and liked what I saw. Simple mowers and that’s what I wanted. No fuel injection systems or complicated wiring systems. All works great but when they start to fail, it’s an expensive nightmare. I bought a 48” revolt with 100 hours for $3500. Give the brand a try. I’ve got about 400 hours on it now and love it. Good cut and the controls are great. I’ve had no breakdowns and there’s now sign right now of any kind of breakdown. Plan on getting a 54” maverick this spring. Get the commercial grade though. My father in law has a home owner model and at 700 hours, says the blade spindles are wearing out the metal on the deck. I think the commercial models have added steel plates where the blade spindles are but not sure.

 

I've been cutting lawns for close to 30 years and I've used almost every brand of mower. Ran toro for a while but after the bad hydro problems with the hydro system and other issues on the grandstands, and everyone had the same problems, I was done with toro. Saw the badboy mowers but was skeptical because of the price. Generally, you get what you pay for. Went over it with a fine tooth comb and liked what I saw. Simple mowers and that's what I wanted. No fuel injection systems or complicated wiring systems. All works great but when they start to fail, it's an expensive nightmare. I bought a 48" revolt with 100 hours for $3500. Give the brand a try. I've got about 400 hours on it now and love it. Good cut and the controls are great. I've had no breakdowns and there's now sign right now of any kind of breakdown. Plan on getting a 54" maverick this spring. Get the commercial grade though. My father in law has a home owner model and at 700 hours, says the blade spindles are wearing out the metal on the deck. I think the commercial models have added steel plates where the blade spindles are but not sure.
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What kind of lifespan should those sealed deck bearings have? I live in the south high humidity start mowing when it's wet I started changing the deck bearings on my bad boy every spring for peace of mind around 350 hrs a season.

 

I'm a huge fan of Demo's in situations like this. If you can try one out on your actual accounts, then you know exactly what you're getting. I understand that's not always possible or easy, but it's how I'd at least try to proceed.
Good luck!

 

Decent mowers we work on a lot of the lower tier ones had a couple of outlaws in there and from just my experience on working on em is 1)the relays act up a lot. Not so much the relays themselves but the wiring as it tends to have shorts. 2) electronic deck lift actuators go out a lot. Not cheap about $400 for a new one. 3) hard to get aftermarket parts for. Not really a bad thing but if a spindle goes bad it’s gonna be more expensive than buying one from say Stens or someone. 4) drive belts, some last forever, some break every 6 months no rhyme or reason.

 

As far as those talking about the deck or spindles being sealed, I would not have it any other way. With this unit having over 800 hours they are still going strong. I would rather they be sealed. Some units require you to grease the spindles almost daily. Who has time for that?

Your 2018 radius X is 3 yrs old.
With only 800 hrs, doesn't seem like your over using them to me.
If your happy with a brand and are familiar with them I'd stay the course.

There is nothing wring with the brand I use. I have been using Exmark since 2003ish. But, I was thinking if I could save at least $2000 for another unit that doesn't seem to be lacking in quality any more than what I have, then it may not be a bad idea. I guess trying to demo one would be good too. I don't know. I am just itching to try something new I guess. Seems most companies I see around town have "their brand", and sometimes I wonder if the brand they choose is for a good reason. Have they discovered something I have yet to discover? Am I spending too much on Exmark. And then too, new dealers come around sometimes, and being a little closer and easy to deal with, I wonder if I should give them an opportunity. I see what you are saying though. If Exmark hasn't let me down, why leave them. I guess price more than anything for what seems to be about the same quality.

 

As far as those talking about the deck or spindles being sealed, I would not have it any other way. With this unit having over 800 hours they are still going strong. I would rather they be sealed. Some units require you to grease the spindles almost daily. Who has time for that?
There is nothing wring with the brand I use. I have been using Exmark since 2003ish. But, I was thinking if I could save at least $2000 for another unit that doesn't seem to be lacking in quality any more than what I have, then it may not be a bad idea. I guess trying to demo one would be good too. I don't know. I am just itching to try something new I guess. Seems most companies I see around town have "their brand", and sometimes I wonder if the brand they choose is for a good reason. Have they discovered something I have yet to discover? Am I spending too much on Exmark. And then too, new dealers come around sometimes, and being a little closer and easy to deal with, I wonder if I should give them an opportunity. I see what you are saying though. If Exmark hasn't let me down, why leave them. I guess price more than anything for what seems to be about the same quality.

Also look at warranty on both machines. One might be 3 yrs commercial use, and the other 1 yr commercial use.

 

I looked and Exmark has a 4 year or 1000 hour warranty on the Radius X and the Badboy Outlaw has a 2 year on most things. Something to consider. By the time the warranty is up on Exmark it is time for a new one anyway...

 

We run up 1000 hours in a little over two years, so a 4 year warranty wouldn’t mean much. But yes, we trade ours every 3 years, purely because the warranty on all mowers suck.

 

Do you see others using a bad boy in your area?

 

I see some around but I don't know of any personally to ask how they like the mowers. I do see a lot of people that have large properties buy them. I only know one person that bought one for their church and he loves it. The dealer posts on their FB page when someone buys one. They would take a photo of the person with the mower on their trailer when they were about to roll off the lot with a unit. I would see posts saying so and so form abc xyz lawn care business, so people are buying them for business I guess.

 

After putting 200 hours on my Bad Boy, I certainly don't hate it or love it. I had a list of things I didn't like about the Compact Outlaw and Bay Boy in general. My Exmark is at about 1200 hours now. Starting to get to that point where I want to let it go. I don't like it at all when one starts going to the shop. Don't have time for that. I am at that point with the Radius X and I like to stay in the field, not running around to and from the dealer for repairs and wasting time and money.

I had said I wouldn't go back with another Bad Boy unless they changed some things I didn't like. Well, I was at the dealer yesterday, and they had a shipment of 2022 Bad Boys. Seems almost every issue has been addressed, so a lot of people must have said something to them. One of my biggest complaints was to get a fully commercial unit, you have to get at least a 61" deck. The compact outlaw is a mid grade or lower grade commercial unit and the largest deck it had was a 48". Stepping up to the Rebel meant you had to get a 61 and that was crazy to me.

The Compact Outlaw is gone for 2022 and the Maverick has been made into a more commercial unit. It has deck options larger than the 48 and the rebel now has a 54" available. Suspension seat system was another weak point for me. Even with the seat isolation system, it left a lot to be desired. The 2022's have a full dial in suspension seat. I sat on one yesterday and it was very comfortable.

So, just when I was about to consider going with a 52" or 60" Exmark, I will be finding myself at the same crossroads as last year come spring. lol. Just wanted to give a quick update. Anyone else using Bad Boy now? Thoughts? Opinions?

The only actual issue I have had with the mower is the parking brake design is bad on this unit. The nut keeps working loose and the brake handle iwill have a lot of play in it. If you don't keep a check on it, you will lose the bolt and won't have use of your parking brake. I have been the shop twice with this. But, I couldn't stop in summer, so I just didn't have a parking brake for 4 months or so. Not sure how common it is, but I don't like annoying things like that. If you fix it, I don't want to come back for the same issue.

 

Size of the deck has nothing to do with if it’s a commercial mower or not. It’s the model that determines that. Either the salesman didn’t know what he was talking about or he was lying to you in an effort to dump that 61” deck mower on you. I’ve got a 2019 48” badboy revolt that I love. Bought it used with the 100 hours and now has about 700 hours. I saw a few things that could be upgraded when I bought it but no biggie. For instance, no grease points on the front rims. When the bushings gave out, I replaced the front rims with brand new lesco ztwo rims I had kept when I used to run lesco.

 

Size of the deck has nothing to do with if it's a commercial mower or not. It's the model that determines that. Either the salesman didn't know what he was talking about or he was lying to you in an effort to dump that 61" deck mower on you. I've got a 2019 48" badboy revolt that I love. Bought it used with the 100 hours and now has about 700 hours. I saw a few things that could be upgraded when I bought it but no biggie. For instance, no grease points on the front rims. When the bushings gave out, I replaced the front rims with brand new lesco ztwo rims I had kept when I used to run lesco.

Well the revolt has those options, but not the Zero Turns. You either had to get a Compact Outlaw 48 or a Rebel/Rogue 61" no 48" 52" or 54" was available last year in those units. Made no sense to me.

 

I was looking at a 60” maverick a year ago. New. Liked it a lot.

 

One of my closest friends bought what had to be one of the first Bad Boy mowers almost 20 years ago. What was most impressive, was how the entire machine was designed so that most/all of the maintenance work could be done very easily.

I think they've kept some of that mentality, which is a good thing.

Full time, I'm a machinist, and have worked at places where we've made machinery from the ground up. My perspective on machinery is different, as other people see a ZTR mower. I see pieces of square-tubing, laser-cut metal sheets that are bent on a press-brake, deck spindles that are pieces of bar stock, turned on a lathe into a spindle, etc...

My last gaze at some Bad Boy commercial mowers seemed pretty positive. It seems like they still like to keep things simple, in regard to how the physical machines are constructed. Hustler seems good in that regard too.

Keep in mind also, that all of these mower manufacturers buy engines from Kohler, Kawasaki, or Briggs. They all buy their hydros from Parker, Hydrogear, or Ross. They all buy their tires from Carlisle, etc... And on & on & on...

The only real thing that separates them, is deck design, and fabrication of the chassis. After that, it's the dealer...

Look in great detail at a Bad Boy or Hustler, compared to an eXmark, and you'll start to understand pretty quickly, on a pure manufacturing level at least, why a Bad Boy or Hustler can be several thousand cheaper than an eXmark...

I have an eXmark Lazer Z, X-series. Bought it used. I like it fairly well. I wouldn't hesitate to try a commercial Bad Boy or Hustler for a moment. I CERTAINLY would get a demo before signing on the dotted line though...

 

What is it about exmark manufacturing wise that makes it thousands more ?

 

I agree with your comment about a mower’s deck. That’s where I START if/when it’s time for a new mower. JD and Scag would always be my first few stops (at this stage of my cutting career) because I’ve always got some “wet mowing” to do each week, whether it be rain or morning dew. If a bad boy or hustler could perform as well under the same conditions (and maybe they can, I’ve never demo’d one) they could be on the list too.

 

I agree with your comment about a mower's deck. That's where I START if/when it's time for a new mower. JD and Scag would always be my first few stops (at this stage of my cutting career) because I've always got some "wet mowing" to do each week, whether it be rain or morning dew. If a bad boy or hustler could perform as well under the same conditions (and maybe they can, I've never demo'd one) they could be on the list too.

From my deck research this year, I think you could safely put Hustler on that list. Certainly worth a demo in "wet" conditions.

I haven't looked at Badboy's commercial decks to know much about them.

 

I’m in the Midwest. Hustler deck wouldn’t get her done in the wet. Not doubting your research. But they historically do not perform well in wet conditions

 

I'm in the Midwest. Hustler deck wouldn't get her done in the wet. Not doubting your research. But they historically do not perform well in wet conditions

Which deck? I was specifically looking at the VX4 which looks very similar to Scag's Velocity+ deck

 

The 60" VX4 doesn't have nearly as good a rep in the mid west as the 72" seems to. I know that there is one crew here that runs the 60" decks and the cut they leave is nothing to be proud of. Most other Hustlers here are running the RD decks in either 60 or 72" sizes and doing ROW work.

 

Interesting feedback on the Hustler decks.

Im really trying to find something that will give better cut quality in real world conditions than my eXmark. My exmark dealer also sells Wright & Hustler. Im not a fan of the Scag & Bad Boy dealers here

 

Wrights around here clump like crazy when wet (perhaps they aren’t set up correctly). eXmarks leave super nice stripes here. The biggest company here runs only eXmarks and if it’s wet, they bag. Looks very very nice.

My Scags are very very nice too. They Don’t cost as much, and I don’t have to bag in the wet. Scag is just a good fit for me. Might not be for everyone. Id love a stand on Scag with the Hustler hypers ….. wow!

 

Everything is just a little more frivoulously over-engineered.

Look at the frame of my X-series mower.

View attachment 475083

The rear engine mount surface is a piece of laser-cut, then multiple bends & forms from a humungous forming die (The engine bolts onto raised bosses in the sheet-metal - those have to be formed via press....)

Then look at the frame rails - Each rail starts from box-tubing, but then receives multiple bends. Just the foot rest alone starts as a laser-cut sheet, then receives how many? bends...? Then the side plates... There's a dozen more little brackets & gussets that we don't have time for...

All of those individual components, then go into a welding jig, then get welded - probably via a robot. Then onto paint.

Everyone else is content with welding multiple pieces of box-tubing together, and moving on...

Hell, look at the foot-pedal for the deck-height adjust. (Find No. 6 in the above exploded drawing) The lever is laser-cut, then (2) bends via a press-brake, and the foot-pedal itself is laser-cut, then pieced for the raised-grip-surface, and then formed. Then welded. All that, for a foot-pedal.

Hustler takes a flat bar of metal for the lever, then a round post with some easy knurls, and welds them together. Simple.

Don't get me wrong. I like my mower. It performs well, and does very good on inclines. But it is needlessly complex at the component level...

Thanks for taking the time to write up a detailed response, I enjoyed reading and learning from it.

 

Something to consider...look at what other professional LCO's are running? Call the owners, get their thoughts on why they run what they run. In central IL. I see a lot of eXmarks, JD's, & Scag's. You see the occasional Toro ZTR's, rarely see any Hustlers and have not seen ANY Bad Boy units being used commercially. I would definitely take that into consideration as well.

Personally, I didn't even consider BB since the only "dealers" here was Tractor Supply (TSC). No service, no sale....wasn't inclined to go any further. Demo'd eXmark, JD and Scag...I found eXmark to be "about" even with the others in dry conditions, but quite expensive. JD was much better in wet conditions than the eXmark, but didn't ride as nice as the Scag and was also quite expensive...but JD did offer a selling price much closer to the Scag. The Scag, to me, offered a superior cut to the other two...only very slightly better than the 7Iron and eXmark in dry conditions, but noticeably better in the wet, especially compared to eXmark. Unless it's a monsoon, my properties drain well so I'm mowing wet or dry. Then, Scag had a promotion become available and it became a no-brainer.

You have a machine you like, just getting a few hours on the girl. You have 2 good dealers...one offers a product with proven reliability and results, and you like yours. The other? That's still not been fully answered and is somewhat still an open book. They are offering a good deal...on paper. Will the eXmark dealer give you any love at all on their machine?

 

Good points. Both dealers are good. The BB dealer is newer, but they are looking out for me now. All in all Exmark is probably a BETTER choice for me, but how much better is the key question? All things considered, the comparable Exmark is about 20% more. Just a matter of going point by point I guess and roll the dice. They Lazer Z does have a better warranty, but then you are paying for it. Warranty or not, I will be lucky to get more than 2 season in before they start having to visit the shop. I like to stay out of the shop and in the field. So a 5 year warranty that Exmark has on some models will be of little use as I think beteen 3 and 4 years I like to upgrade to have a better chance at staying out of the shop other than doing regular PM maintenance myself.

 

I agree with your comment about a mower's deck. That's where I START if/when it's time for a new mower. JD and Scag would always be my first few stops (at this stage of my cutting career) because I've always got some "wet mowing" to do each week, whether it be rain or morning dew. If a bad boy or hustler could perform as well under the same conditions (and maybe they can, I've never demo'd one) they could be on the list too.

That is one bad thing about Exmark. Doesn't mow wet grass worth a crap. Thing I like about the BB Rebel and Rouge is the deck design more closely resembles the Scag Velocity deck. Even the Compact outlaw I have without the copy cat velocity deck has a better quality cut than the Exmark IMO. I do still like my Exmark over the Outlaw overall when it comes to all around comfort and not having as many small irritating issues. But the compact outlaw is gone this year lol. If I get a BB it will be a 61" rebel most likely. I was quotes about $9900 and some change for it. Exmark 60" Radius X is over $10,000 this year and has the 3400 hydros on it. The Rebel has 4400's. To step up to a Lazer Z E series and get the better hydros is about $12,000 or a little more.

 

Keep in mind...it may LOOK similar to a Velocity+ deck...but that really is meaningless compared to actual performance....I think this summed it up quite well...

"I do still like my Exmark over the Outlaw overall when it comes to all around comfort and not having as many small irritating issues."

That to me says a lot!!

 

True, but then like I said, BB seemed to fix a lot of the issues I had with my model. So there's that too lol

 

At one time all mowers were regional. You'd see a lot of each kind only near where they were manufactured. Since then most of the old timers have grown and gone national.

Bad boy and spartan are still in those earlier stages. They have lots of dealers in some parts of the country but none in others.

 

Something else to consider...most commercial equipment is good for at least 1500 hours if properly maintained. HOWEVER, ALL equipment can & will fail you at some point...it's when that point comes will it be under warranty?

It all depends on your yearly usage, your maintenance practices etc. and the premium you place on it being covered...or by a lower upfront cost and the possibility of covering any mechanical needs after the warranty...there's a few more variables to consider as well...and how much value does piece of mind bring?

I wish you the best as I know this can be a tough decision going through all the scenarios.

 

Thanks it is tough. I don't regret the BB I have. I really don't. I just like the Exmark better. But then the 2 units I have are not really cpmparing apples to apples.
I agree about the warrranty. But I really don't like keeping a mower that long. 1200-1500 hours and I want to upgrade. Like I was saying, warranty or not, I don't want to be in the shop. I do like the 5 year warranty on some of the Exmarks though. But if I put 5 years on a mower, it will be shot to hell lol

 

I bought my Lazer Z X-series with 2400+ hours, and finished the season with over 2600.

My only "breakdowns" over the season were a broken PTO belt, and tensioner spring.

I did have an engine failure, but i have a hard time holding the mower at fault. It had an oil leak that went unrepaired, and I wasn't diligent on keeping up with it.

My point to the post though - with a few hundred dollars in spare belts, springs, deck wheels, and a spindle, there's not much else to go wrong on commercial ZTR that should keep it out of service for more than a day. This goes for any brand really.

Yes, you could have an engine or hydro failure. But again, all mower brands buy their engines & hydros from the same vendors. So thats jot specific to any mower brand.

If you're buying a mower new, i see no reason why it wouldn't last 5-10 years of solo use if you take care of it.

True you CAN get over 5 years on one, but you will start seeing a lot of down time at some point. Still may be a good backup unit at that point and time, but I don't want to run one in the ground like I used to, I like to keep them rotated. 1200 hours or so is that time for me. Still has some life in it for someone else, but I am ready to let them go about that time.

 

I looked at the Rogue line a few years back and it really is a heavy duty built machine. Front forks are huge, top of the deck is very clean and open for what looks to be ease of access. The discharge opening is about as wide as JD and Scag so clumping didn't look to be an issue. The hydro system is dual filter and very easy to access. The Rogue has the 3 link rear suspension and is supposed to ride great even without a suspension seat. Good engine choices. The only thing i DIDN'T like was the cut height settings. Most machines are set up in 1/4" increments these days but these seem to be 1/3" increments. That's only a bigger deal if you are using two different brands on one section of property. Other than that, I didn't see any real issues with it. I didn't buy one because I don't cut enough to commit to a new machine. My MDG is a 2000 model and my Lazer HP is a 2002. Both still do the job to everyone's satisfaction (including mine).