It depends on what type of soil you have, rainfall, sunlight, ect......
It will also depend on what amount of AI per k [amount] they put out. If you need to overseed, I would not have them apply anymore pre- emergent this season and overseed in the Fall. Depending on some of the variables I was talking about, the Barricade should last from 3 months to 7 months.

 

lets say i wait at least 6 weeks ( first day of spring = march 19 ) and then aerate and overseed what do you think would happen?? would the seed simply not germinate and sit there until the fall or would they simply die out...

i got a 25lb bag of Lesco Transition Blend that I can't return ( lost my receipt ) at a good price since the "expiration date " was April 2010........ I would hate for this bag of seed to go to waste!

 

lets say i wait at least 6 weeks ( first day of spring = march 19 ) and then aerate and overseed what do you think would happen?? would the seed simply not germinate and sit there until the fall or would they simply die out...

i got a 25lb bag of Lesco Transition Blend that I can't return ( lost my receipt ) at a good price since the "expiration date " was April 2010........ I would hate for this bag of seed to go to waste!

Turf Dawg is right ricsin.
Of all the pre-emergents out there, prodiamine (Barricade) has the longest chemical half-life in the soil.
In fact, I'm among quite a few veterans in this biz that suspect Barricade's best place isn't in turf, but primarily as landscape pre-emergent.
But try to tell THAT to Syngenta.
With this product they push harder & harder every year in turf & continue to do next to nothing with it in beds! Makes NO sense!

 

The seed will not go "bad" as long as it does not get wet. Keep it off the floor and in a dry place and you will be fine.

I would not seed first day of spring no matter what. Even if you areate, there is no guarantee it will still germinate. I usually wait 14 to 16 weeks after barricade is applied before seeding.

Is it common practice to seed in the spring down south? and to use a cool season grass seed? Can you wait till fall? There is a good chance that seeding in the spring, your gonna waste your seed and be out that money.

Up north here, I try not to seed in the spring unless it is really necessary, like moderate to heavy shade conditions, because of the hot summers. The new grass will just not make it through if not irrigated.

Good luck

 

We've had issues here in PA with spring Barricade apps and fall overseeding 5 months later. Now, no one has mentioned this, but will breaking the "barrier" (where's Smallaxe?) so to speak by aerating let the OP seed with decent germination rates?

But I also would take grass4gas's advice too. Unless you can keep the grass irrigated in the summer, you might want to wait. It's been hot and dry in GA the last few years but it seems like you guys are finally getting consistent rain.

 

Preemergents are a class of herbicides that are designed to hold in place on the top layer of soil and kill young seedlings as they emerge. In other words if you put down the grass seed now it will not just let that seed lie dormant till it wears off. The grass will germinate and then die. Looks like you get to over seed in the fall which is the best time anyway. I never pre-emerge fescue areas until talking with the homeowner. Those areas typically do not seem to be weed problem areas in Ok and the weeds that do get in them are easy to kill.

 

No, it's not common to seed in the South. The best time is going to be in the fall, if you aerate in seed in the spring down here you're gonna get crabgrass out the (you know what) come summer time (Not to mention that seed will not have time to mature when the summer heat hits). Do people do it....Yes.....Why? Cause they have the wrong information. Your lawn care company did the right thing. Keep your seed dry and wait until fall to use it, you'll be fine.

 

i think my plans of a early seeding may be ruined........... my lawn care company came today - feb 4th - and applied my late winter treatment... they sprayed BARRICADE pre-emergent and something called 3 Way Ester weed control.........

Oh, I forgot to mention before...
If I lived in central GA & had a lawn care service come to my place & try to apply any pre-emergent the 1st week of February, I'd tell them to go pound salt!... ....particularly THIS season the way the South has had abnormally cold weather vs. here & Canada, where they're trucking in tremendous amount of snow for the Olympics because it's not cold enough to make it.

At the very least, If I were you I'd keep a close eye on the broadleaf weeds in your lawn that they sprayed with 3 Way Ester.
When the 3rd week of February ends, check them, and if they're not dead I'd have the company come back & do (at least) a spot respray for you.
And I'll bet the soil temps will be a lot warmer by then, so it'll be more effective.

 

I would not seed first day of spring no matter what. Even if you areate, there is no guarantee it will still germinate. I usually wait 14 to 16 weeks after barricade is applied before seeding.

Is it common practice to seed in the spring down south? and to use a cool season grass seed? Can you wait till fall? There is a good chance that seeding in the spring, your gonna waste your seed and be out that money.

Up north here, I try not to seed in the spring unless it is really necessary, like moderate to heavy shade conditions, because of the hot summers. The new grass will just not make it through if not irrigated.

You're 100% right about late summer / early fall seeding being the most ideal time.
And you know as well as I do that a lot of people professionals not excluded don't do enough to make good soil / seed contact no matter when they get around to sowing it. That's crucial, just as much as proper watering.

But I must say g4g you absolutely live on the edge seeding that soon after Barricade apps.
There is little to no support industry-wide anymore for the outdated "barrier theory" of pre-emergent, so poking holes through Barricade isn't the answer to the problem.
Using the right product for the job at the correct timing is.

In my quarter century's experiences I've come across dozens upon dozens of grow-in or renovation failures due to residual prodiamine left over from spring.
Unfortunately in X% of these Barricade-residual situations the client ends up blaming the vendors claiming bad seed or whatever, or the vendor will say the client didn't water...well I don't have to tell you folks these sad stories because you've probably lived through them yourselves!

 

Trying to draw up a plan of action myself for what Pre-M to use and when to apply.

Last year I used Dimension but it was Southern States brand which was called "Premium Crabgrass Control with Dimension" and only applied one time which for one; was probably applied to late in the season which ended up being almost June.

I had almost set my mind on Barricade for this year till I seen Marcos reply:

In fact, I'm among quite a few veterans in this biz that suspect Barricade's best place isn't in turf, but primarily as landscape pre-emergent.
But try to tell THAT to Syngenta.
With this product they push harder & harder every year in turf & continue to do next to nothing with it in beds! Makes NO sense!

So now I'm back to square one
Dimension, Barricade or some other Pre-M?

If Dimension; is Southern States brand OK as I plan to put out Mid April this year. Or is there a Dimension brand name?

Links would be helpful as I'll probably have to order it.

 

But I must say g4g you absolutely live on the edge seeding that soon after Barricade apps.
There is little to no support industry-wide anymore for the outdated "barrier theory" of pre-emergent, so poking holes through Barricade isn't the answer to the problem.

I use barricade up to April 30. This will give me a minimum of 16 weeks should I have to seed. In most cases, if these lawns do require seeding, then I am in good shape to do so.

Should I need to do a "split app" on certain lawns...mainly new accounts in rough shape, then I may do barricade on #1 and dimesion on #2...or do 2 dimension apps. Some on here have mentioned doing 2 apps of barricade...that I would not do. There might not be any problems doing it this way, there are just other options out there.

Ultimately, it comes down to knowing your product.

If Dimension; is Southern States brand OK as I plan to put out Mid April this year. Or is there a Dimension brand name?

Dimension is a trade name.

Last year I used Dimension but it was Southern States brand which was called "Premium Crabgrass Control with Dimension" and only applied one time which for one; was probably applied to late in the season which ended up being almost June.

I've applied dimension as late as the 1st week of June, and then seeded around the middle to 3rd week of September with no problems as far as seed germination is concerned.

Some pre-emergent is better than none, even if it is in the early part of June. Dimension will still control small crabgrass at the 2 tiller stage and also give you control on some late germinating crabgrass, and also some post control on certain broadleaf weeds. Just be sure to leave yourself at least 10 weeks before seeding if needed.

Jack

 

I use barricade up to April 30. This will give me a minimum of 16 weeks should I have to seed. In most cases, if these lawns do require seeding, then I am in good shape to do so.

This was my plan, Barricade mid April.
Wasn't sure after reading this thread if barricade would be good for lawns but in deed it is.

Dimension means two applications for me because I was told apply every six weeks. Barricade might be a little more pricey but will even itself off because its one application vs the two Dimension apps.

Just be sure to leave yourself at least 10 weeks before seeding if needed.

Hoping that won't happen this year, but yu never know. If it does, it will be minor and just spread some seed in November and let next Winter do the job in which case the Barricade will be long gone by Nov. :drinkup:

One more question, started looking at the pdf online label and I see mixing instructions for tank sprays but I'm going to be using a 4 gallon backpack sprayer to which I don't see mixing instructions yet per gallon? How do I figure this ratio?

Thanks Jack.

 

One more question, started looking at the pdf online label and I see mixing instructions for tank sprays but I'm going to be using a 4 gallon backpack sprayer to which I don't see mixing instructions yet per gallon? How do I figure this ratio?

I never used barricade in liquid form, only granular, so I really can't tell you. I have used liquid Pre-m from lesco/JDL for spraying cracks in hard surfaces. That, I mix at 1oz/gal and just wet the area I'm spraying.

There are people on here that use a liquid barricade that can help you with the rates.

Jack

 

One more question, started looking at the pdf online label and I see mixing instructions for tank sprays but I'm going to be using a 4 gallon backpack sprayer to which I don't see mixing instructions yet per gallon? How do I figure this ratio?

I never used barricade in liquid form, only granular, so I really can't tell you. I have used liquid Pre-m from lesco/JDL for spraying cracks in hard surfaces. That, I mix at 1oz/gal and just wet the area I'm spraying.

There are people on here that use a liquid barricade that can help you with the rates.

Jack

OK!!!! Granular would be even better for me in barricade :drinkup: but all I've seen is 3Lb jug online or from their web site and if I'm understanding the directions correctly the 3Lb jug that is Granular gets diluted in a 25Lb or 50 Lb tank sprayer

Granular!!!! Me excited now any links so I can make an informed decision :clapping:

 

Would this be it?
http://www.target-specialty.com/pdfs/PromotionPDFs/green trust 365 lawn program1.pdf

 

Scratch the above link grass4gas I found it, it was well hidden :hammerhead:

http://www.southernstates.com/articles/lg/growlikeapro/fertilizing.aspx

Scroll to the bottom its the last two on the list. Just need to know which you recommend? I'm thinking the

CarpetMaker® Turf Fertilizer 16-4-8 with 0.43% Barricade

as it has more slow release Nitrogen so which means I can also fore-go on less fertilizer application in the spring as I have planed.

 

That looks fine. Apply it at around 4lb/k. If your only doing 1 app of pre-emergence with this, I would try to wait until early April before applying.

 

That looks fine. Apply it at around 4lb/k. If your only doing 1 app of pre-emergence with this, I would try to wait until early April before applying.

Yep, mid April thats my plan. I assume you recomend 1 application not a split application?

In about two weeks:
Mid Feb
Early Nitrogen Application:
Scotts Turf Builder Lawn Fertilizer with 2% Iron 29X2X4

Mid March
Early Spring Application:
Scotts Turf Builder Lawn Fertilizer with Halts Crabgrass Preventer
Debating this now due to the N with Barricade and might go with a slow release N as I want to get away from Scotts anyhow

Mid April
One of the two on the advice of the last post
CarpetMaker® Turf Fertilizer 16-4-8 with 0.43% Barricade
or
CarpetMaker® Turf Fertilizer 6-0-18 with 0.43% Barricade

 

Hey buddy...I will try to cover your PM here and offer an opinion on what you have in this thread. I have not been on here much the past few weeks.

I really do not have a good understanding of your growing season there. Based on my experience and beliefs here, I don't like your Mid Feb or mid-March applications. I try not to put any nitrogen down until May but sometimes put a half pound down with pre-emergent if I decide to use a granular combo product.

If mid-April is the time pre-emergent for crabgrass typically goes down in your area, then I would have the product in my garage 3-4 weeks ahead of that. Get a soil thermometer or just an instant-read food thermometer for $5-$6. Put it in the ground in Mid-March with the tip 1 1/2" deep. When the temp hits 50 degrees and stay there a good part of the day, start figuring out a day you can make the application before it gets to 55 degrees soil temp.

Of the two products you mentioned, I like the one with less N and no P. Personal preference for that time of year. The high K lets you get away with a urea product later.

 

Trying to draw up a plan of action myself for what Pre-M to use and when to apply.

Last year I used Dimension but it was Southern States brand which was called "Premium Crabgrass Control with Dimension" and only applied one time which for one; was probably applied to late in the season which ended up being almost June.

I had almost set my mind on Barricade for this year till I seen Marcos reply:

So now I'm back to square one
Dimension, Barricade or some other Pre-M?

If Dimension; is Southern States brand OK as I plan to put out Mid April this year. Or is there a Dimension brand name?

Links would be helpful as I'll probably have to order it.

From my perspective as a bridge-organic lawn care contractor, landscaper & fall seeding guy, the use of Barricade in turf is a throw of the dice each & every season you use it, particularly the later you use it in the spring.

(Properly irrigated turf is largely exempt from this discussion.)
If your specific region has a beautiful growing season in a given year, of course fall seeding won't be necessary, so the contractor or the client won't know the lingering effects of prodiamine that season.

But WHAT IF... we have another immense drought the likes of what Ohio & much of the upper Midwest experienced 1988 or 2007?
What if you begin to lose 30, 40, even 50% or more of the grass & it turns from straw brown to gray because watering of any kind is no longer allowed?

What happens come August /early September, you're ready to renovate and still lurking in the soil is much of the late spring prodiamine?

You renovate, seed, cross your fingers & pray to your higher power.
Or you wait until dormant-seed season & fight the inevitable problems with cool season annuals (chickweed, henbit, etc) encroaching upon your seedbeds & destroying any hope of future establishment the next spring.
Pick your poison.

My advice: steer clear from prodiamine unless you can 100% guarantee a specific lawn won't need early fall renovation.
Again, irrigated turf that's maintained well, cut consistently high during warmer periods, etc very may fit this criteria.

 

From my perspective as a bridge-organic lawn care contractor, landscaper & fall seeding guy, the use of Barricade in turf is a throw of the dice each & every season you use it, particularly the later you use it in the spring.

(Properly irrigated turf is largely exempt from this discussion.)
If your specific region has a beautiful growing season in a given year, of course fall seeding won't be necessary, so the contractor or the client won't know the lingering effects of prodiamine that season.

But WHAT IF... we have another immense drought the likes of what Ohio & much of the upper Midwest experienced 1988 or 2007?
What if you begin to lose 30, 40, even 50% or more of the grass & it turns from straw brown to gray because watering of any kind is no longer allowed?

What happens come August /early September, you're ready to renovate and still lurking in the soil is much of the late spring prodiamine?

You renovate, seed, cross your fingers & pray to your higher power.
Or you wait until dormant-seed season & fight the inevitable problems with cool season annuals (chickweed, henbit, etc) encroaching upon your seedbeds & destroying any hope of future establishment the next spring.
Pick your poison.

My advice: steer clear from prodiamine unless you can 100% guarantee a specific lawn won't need early fall renovation.
Again, irrigated turf that's maintained well, cut consistently high during warmer periods, etc very may fit this criteria.

Dam just when I thought I'd put together a good program and made a informed decision Marcos comes a long and throws a wrench in the plan :drinkup:

Like you say Pick your poison; can't win for loosing but at the same time you have a point, I'm thinking back over the past 10 years of living in this area.

Year before last we did have water restrictions for the first time that I can remember. Even then it was "Every other day" depended on your house number odds or even number depended on the day you were allowed to water and hell no one even paid attention to it though it was a $200 fine.

Don't know where your located Marcos, but I've seeded right up as late as Mid November her and got a good stand before winter set in so my plan all along has been to apply Barricade with a rate that will last me till Sept which at that time I usually have no problems with weeds after that point anyhow so if I get down early April thats 6 months :drinkup:

All Comments are welcome; took a lot of advice from you guys and I just got off the phone with Southern States which helped me put together a pretty good schedule to get me away from Scott's which I'm going to start a new thread from and post the schedule to get more input.

Starts out like this:
Get out ASAP this weekend just ordered:
NOTE: "Recommended when a pre-emergent is applied separately"
CarpetMaker® 16-4-8
Second one down in link at end

Last week of March to first week in April.
CarpetMaker 16-4-8 with 0.43% Barricade
First one in link

As per the N thats it till fall unless...
see my other thread sometime later today.

http://www.southernstates.com/promotions/professionalturfguide/fertilizers.aspx

 

Dam just when I thought I'd put together a good program and made a informed decision Marcos comes a long and throws a wrench in the plan :drinkup:

Like you say Pick your poison; can't win for loosing but at the same time you have a point, I'm thinking back over the past 10 years of living in this area.

Year before last we did have water restrictions for the first time that I can remember. Even then it was "Every other day" depended on your house number odds or even number depended on the day you were allowed to water and hell no one even paid attention to it though it was a $200 fine.

Don't know where your located Marcos, but I've seeded right up as late as Mid November her and got a good stand before winter set in so my plan all along has been to apply Barricade with a rate that will last me till Sept which at that time I usually have no problems with weeds after that point anyhow so if I get down early April thats 6 months

All Comments are welcome; took a lot of advice from you guys and I just got off the phone with Southern States which helped me put together a pretty good schedule to get me away from Scott's which I'm going to start a new thread from and post the schedule to get more input.

Starts out like this:
Get out ASAP this weekend just ordered:
NOTE: "Recommended when a pre-emergent is applied separately"
CarpetMaker® 16-4-8
Second one down in link at end

Last week of March to first week in April.
CarpetMaker 16-4-8 with 0.43% Barricade
First one in link

As per the N thats it till fall unless...
see my other thread sometime later today.

http://www.southernstates.com/promotions/professionalturfguide/fertilizers.aspx

You get all your Barricade down before mid April & you seed that late in the fall and still get consistently good stands to develop to a mowable height by the 1st freeze/thaw cycles...........then someone out there in KY is no doubt saying lots o' Hail Marys for you, kirk! :waving: :drinkup:

 

You get all your Barricade down before mid April & you seed that late in the fall and still get consistently good stands to develop to a mowable height by the 1st freeze/thaw cycles...........then someone out there in KY is no doubt saying lots o' Hail Marys for you, kirk! :waving: :drinkup:

Take a look Marcos, last fall :drinkup:

Worked my balls off and lost 20 Lbs, spread the compost BY HAND!!!
There should be a thread in here about the process from last fall.

http://home.insightbb.com/~kirk1701/Lawn.htm