A guy contacted me about doing the surface prep and planting grass on a new construction. The original builder did a pretty good job with the dirt work and there’s not much construction debris left and there’s no major dirt moving to be done. I plan on box blading the area with my tractor and spreading topsoil on it. The original dirt isn’t very good and has a lot of gravel in it. I haven’t figured up how many yards of dirt I’ll need but I’m guessing 3-4 tri axel truck loads. I pay $200 for the dirt but I’ll probably mark that up to $250. So that’s appropriately $1000. It shouldn’t take more than a day so I’ll probably charge between $500-750 for labor. That’s just for the surface prep. How much should I charge for the seeding and straw? He asked for a quote on sod but my numbers there are coming to about a dollar a foot so I seriously doubt he’ll go for that.
Mowing monkey.
Materials + Markup + Labor = Price
Figure your material costs for sod, the markup, and the labor for dirt work and installation.
Do the same for grass seed.
Offer 2 options. Make sure both are profitable for you.
Also, assuming you're in the midwest like me, you'd be looking at around 200lbs of grass seed to plant Tall Fescue for a new install.
Figure your material costs for sod, the markup, and the labor for dirt work and installation.
Do the same for grass seed.
Offer 2 options. Make sure both are profitable for you.
Also, assuming you're in the midwest like me, you'd be looking at around 200lbs of grass seed to plant Tall Fescue for a new install.
Your price for surface prep is way too low
Ideally you should install 4" of topsoil for anew lawn
I guess you could get away with 2"
So you're between 230 and 115 cubic yards of soil
A full sized dump truck will transport 10-15 cubic yards depending on model
So at a minimum your looking at 11 loads of topsoil
That's $2,750 just for soil and you haven't spread it yet
If it's not completely nasty a crew with the right training and equipment should be able to do that work in a day
8 machine hours at $90 = $720
1 laborer 8 hours at $60 = $480
Sometimes depending on obstacles in the lawn and debris handling you could need a second laborer
So could be another 480
There will be debris (like vegetation and rocks mixed with soil ) that needs to be hauled off so figure another $500 for debris disposal
That's $4,950
Lawn is now ready for seed
Figuring seed in your area isn't really complicated use whatever is popular plus mulch and fertilizer... to have it hydroseeded you're propbably talking around .10 a square foot. Mark it up to .12 unless you're doing it yourself
So $2,160.00
That's $7,110.00, which comes out to a touch over 39 cents a square foot
That gravelly soil needs to be covered up
So like I said you'll want a minimum of 2"
But I suggest 4 inches
Seed n straw will be more expensive than hydroseed unless you have a straw blower
Call around someone is doing a hydroseed business near you and will come over and shoot it for you.
Lowest you should be on that job ... cut a couple corners , do it quickly ... would be around $5,800... or around 32 cents a square foot.
I fully support the hydroseeding idea. Any way you can make money, and do less work at the same time, is a win. Because realistically, thats free money in your pocket. You're not really out any labor or a whole lot of time for having someone come do that work for you.
I charge $7-800 per tri axle, 20/22 yards of topsoil delivered and spread.
They should have some topsoil left from the build.
Like said before hydro seed because it’s easier and less labor than straw blanket. .18-.25 cents sq ft for that size. That’s a medium around here.
$5-6000 complete prep topsoil and seeding
Sod would run $8-10k on a new install that size. Less topsoil needed and use big rolls. Out of there in couple hours.
They should have some topsoil left from the build.
Like said before hydro seed because it’s easier and less labor than straw blanket. .18-.25 cents sq ft for that size. That’s a medium around here.
$5-6000 complete prep topsoil and seeding
Sod would run $8-10k on a new install that size. Less topsoil needed and use big rolls. Out of there in couple hours.
Just so you’re aware, you’ve already said that you would come out to $1 per square foot for sod.
From what I’ve been told that sounds close to lower 48 prices. So you’re probably accurate there.
Up here sod would be a minimum of $-1.50 per square and in many cases close to 2/sf
So in your case to sod it would be $18,000.00
Topsoil and seed like I said coming out at .32 a square foot is a really fair deal. It’s a third less than sodding
You’re looking at trying to do this all for a couple grand
Why?
Or better yet why bother?
Put this in another perspective
What would you charge to cut that lawn once it’s installed?
$45 ?
So it’s ok if I give a price that’s $12 right? Because a guy with a rider can do that lawn in a couple of minutes, right?
By the way
The right landscape tractor can do an amazing job installing a lawn and a skid steer isn’t necessarily faster
From what I’ve been told that sounds close to lower 48 prices. So you’re probably accurate there.
Up here sod would be a minimum of $-1.50 per square and in many cases close to 2/sf
So in your case to sod it would be $18,000.00
Topsoil and seed like I said coming out at .32 a square foot is a really fair deal. It’s a third less than sodding
You’re looking at trying to do this all for a couple grand
Why?
Or better yet why bother?
Put this in another perspective
What would you charge to cut that lawn once it’s installed?
$45 ?
So it’s ok if I give a price that’s $12 right? Because a guy with a rider can do that lawn in a couple of minutes, right?
By the way
The right landscape tractor can do an amazing job installing a lawn and a skid steer isn’t necessarily faster
If you're in business, meaning licensed and insured. You're in this to make money right? Right??
So why wouldn't you charge what your time is worth? For manual labor per man hour I'm sitting right around the $65 mark. If I'm using equipment that I own, its higher. Because you've got the hour that I'm working, PLUS the hour of wear, tear, and fuel usage on the piece of equipment.
$90/hr for a tractor? Not unreasonable, at all. The guy with the skid would probably be around the $115-130/hr mark for a skid. Because he has to pay himself, his overhead and all associated costs for that piece of equipment.
And honestly, paying your helper cash isn't the sketchiest thing I've heard of. We've all probably had friends help us at some point. But the thing is, if you plan on growing which I'd like to think all of us would like to do.... you need to charge as though he is a W-2'd employee, because when you do have one on the books, they are stupidly expensive. A guy at $15/hr is likely going to cost you closer to $18-19/hr.
So why wouldn't you charge what your time is worth? For manual labor per man hour I'm sitting right around the $65 mark. If I'm using equipment that I own, its higher. Because you've got the hour that I'm working, PLUS the hour of wear, tear, and fuel usage on the piece of equipment.
$90/hr for a tractor? Not unreasonable, at all. The guy with the skid would probably be around the $115-130/hr mark for a skid. Because he has to pay himself, his overhead and all associated costs for that piece of equipment.
And honestly, paying your helper cash isn't the sketchiest thing I've heard of. We've all probably had friends help us at some point. But the thing is, if you plan on growing which I'd like to think all of us would like to do.... you need to charge as though he is a W-2'd employee, because when you do have one on the books, they are stupidly expensive. A guy at $15/hr is likely going to cost you closer to $18-19/hr.
mowing monkey isn't taking into consideration travel\mobilization time either...in this thread or the shrub removal.
Not to mention
How do you get a skid steer someday?
You have to make enough off lawns to buy one
You’re not going to make it charging 2,000 to install half an acre
Especially when you have to do it twice because the homeowner doesn’t accept the quality of work when he sees you only used 40 yards to cover a half acre
Guys pricing work have to stop this weird behavior where they get overwhelmed by the need to get the customer “the best deal” or give them a deal they can’t refuse.
Then try to “figure out” how to make money after the fact.
I have a budget of $3000 and I need a lawn
Well... if you only have 5,000 square yoire in luck
But an acre? You’re up a creek without a paddle
I tried to buy a classic mustang once for 3 grand
It had been in a flood
8 grand later I almost had a working mustang.
I could have gotten a gorgeous car for 9 grand that was an awesome deal... if I hadn’t been so tight on my pennies
In fact I did... after I got rid of the lemon.
Had to get rid of the 69 289 hi po and ended up with a 70 351 Cj ... which in the long run was actually cheaper.
Doesn’t matter what the customer wants to spend.. what matters is what does quality and experience cost.
Maturity and pricing are kinda related
You need to get used to rejection
Guys don’t want to ask out the cute cheer leader because she will say no.
Guys don’t want to give a high price because the customer will say no.
Customer and cheerleader say no because you lack confidence and they’ve got a funny feeling about you.
The cheerleader wants to date , the customer wants a job... neither one of them wants to get screwed... if they think you’re that guy... it’s a no.
How do you get a skid steer someday?
You have to make enough off lawns to buy one
You’re not going to make it charging 2,000 to install half an acre
Especially when you have to do it twice because the homeowner doesn’t accept the quality of work when he sees you only used 40 yards to cover a half acre
Guys pricing work have to stop this weird behavior where they get overwhelmed by the need to get the customer “the best deal” or give them a deal they can’t refuse.
Then try to “figure out” how to make money after the fact.
I have a budget of $3000 and I need a lawn
Well... if you only have 5,000 square yoire in luck
But an acre? You’re up a creek without a paddle
I tried to buy a classic mustang once for 3 grand
It had been in a flood
8 grand later I almost had a working mustang.
I could have gotten a gorgeous car for 9 grand that was an awesome deal... if I hadn’t been so tight on my pennies
In fact I did... after I got rid of the lemon.
Had to get rid of the 69 289 hi po and ended up with a 70 351 Cj ... which in the long run was actually cheaper.
Doesn’t matter what the customer wants to spend.. what matters is what does quality and experience cost.
Maturity and pricing are kinda related
You need to get used to rejection
Guys don’t want to ask out the cute cheer leader because she will say no.
Guys don’t want to give a high price because the customer will say no.
Customer and cheerleader say no because you lack confidence and they’ve got a funny feeling about you.
The cheerleader wants to date , the customer wants a job... neither one of them wants to get screwed... if they think you’re that guy... it’s a no.
Something else I do, I can't say its the same for everyone.
I have a profit margin that I would like to make. I usually do my calculations with 2 prices. One price is the "If I get this job, I'm going to make a killing" price. The other is my minimum margin price.
Customers like to haggle. This way, I have a range to work within and still make profit. If I can knock off $200 and make the customer feel like they just got a deal, but I'm still well above my minimum margin, it is a win-win.
And again, what is the worst they can do... say no? I've been told no, cursed out, yelled at, and worse. But you know what? I just got in my truck and drove away, super easy. Because those customers that don't want to pay you what you're worth are those same customers that are going to nickle and dime you at every turn.
Something else for you to chew on...
EDIT: More food for thought. When I was first getting the hang of bidding certain things, I literally had customers say no because I was the cheapest guy. Customers don't necessarily want the cheapest usually. They want the most bang for their buck. Meaning, they think the cheap guy will do cheap work. The next most expensive guy, still reasonable price wise, but his/her price indicates a higher quality product.
I have a profit margin that I would like to make. I usually do my calculations with 2 prices. One price is the "If I get this job, I'm going to make a killing" price. The other is my minimum margin price.
Customers like to haggle. This way, I have a range to work within and still make profit. If I can knock off $200 and make the customer feel like they just got a deal, but I'm still well above my minimum margin, it is a win-win.
And again, what is the worst they can do... say no? I've been told no, cursed out, yelled at, and worse. But you know what? I just got in my truck and drove away, super easy. Because those customers that don't want to pay you what you're worth are those same customers that are going to nickle and dime you at every turn.
Something else for you to chew on...
EDIT: More food for thought. When I was first getting the hang of bidding certain things, I literally had customers say no because I was the cheapest guy. Customers don't necessarily want the cheapest usually. They want the most bang for their buck. Meaning, they think the cheap guy will do cheap work. The next most expensive guy, still reasonable price wise, but his/her price indicates a higher quality product.
What I don't understand about some of the low pricing out there....
If they had 3 job offers as laborer for a lawn company...one at $15, one at $18 and one at $20.....they'd obviously pick the $20 an hour job (all other things being equal) but when owning their own business they want to bid jobs that end up making them less than minimum wage. I don't understand that at all....
"More money is always great! Unless i'm bidding a job then I'm going to screw myself".......and for some odd reason that makes sense to them.
If they had 3 job offers as laborer for a lawn company...one at $15, one at $18 and one at $20.....they'd obviously pick the $20 an hour job (all other things being equal) but when owning their own business they want to bid jobs that end up making them less than minimum wage. I don't understand that at all....
"More money is always great! Unless i'm bidding a job then I'm going to screw myself".......and for some odd reason that makes sense to them.
My helper doesn’t make $600 a year from me. Nothing sketchy or illegal about paying him cash and not reporting it. In my area a compact tractor doesn’t bring $90 an hour. Price it at that and then bill another $500 for my helper at them another $500 for trash disposal and I’ll loose the job.
Can't price the job for your because I don't know the specifics or live in your area. Don't underestimate yourself... just because $1 per sq ft. seems like a high price to you, doesn't necessarily mean the builder looks at it the same way. Just because making $500 in one day is like a weeks check for people in your area... doesn't necessarily mean thats what a professional landscaper would be happy taking home.
Guys on here giving you really good advice. When I started out I lowballed some jobs but learned the hard way...take a loss move on. Worst is when the job is so bad the client can't even pay you for it and you end up walking away from it (been there done that).
FYI $90 for a compact tractor and box blade / $60 per hour for your helper is reasonable. Anything less than that you're not making money.
Guys on here giving you really good advice. When I started out I lowballed some jobs but learned the hard way...take a loss move on. Worst is when the job is so bad the client can't even pay you for it and you end up walking away from it (been there done that).
FYI $90 for a compact tractor and box blade / $60 per hour for your helper is reasonable. Anything less than that you're not making money.
Well here my .02. Bid the job for what ya want / need/ whenever on soil prep (u have plenty advice above for that).
Then
Point him to a hydro seeder and walk away.
Because if this is a now job (spring) and if it’s not irrigated and you don’t get spring showers they are blaming you and it’s your arse. And weeds control, and fert, and etc.
Without proper care i’m Guessing it’s not going to be up to customers satisfaction no matter how great you prep the ground or how much top soil you add.
If you insist on going all the way beginning to end, I’d bid him for hose sprinkler timers and some sprinklers at least. (Big sprinkler has sleds with 6504’s) on them. Bill him cost for those if need be to ensure your work. Or 30% and keep the materials after established.
But they will be coming back to you is my guess for spring seeding and not a proper care.
I’d be careful how much ya take on no matter how much you can make.
Good luck
Then
Point him to a hydro seeder and walk away.
Because if this is a now job (spring) and if it’s not irrigated and you don’t get spring showers they are blaming you and it’s your arse. And weeds control, and fert, and etc.
Without proper care i’m Guessing it’s not going to be up to customers satisfaction no matter how great you prep the ground or how much top soil you add.
If you insist on going all the way beginning to end, I’d bid him for hose sprinkler timers and some sprinklers at least. (Big sprinkler has sleds with 6504’s) on them. Bill him cost for those if need be to ensure your work. Or 30% and keep the materials after established.
But they will be coming back to you is my guess for spring seeding and not a proper care.
I’d be careful how much ya take on no matter how much you can make.
Good luck
So I called the truck driver and he said he’s hauling between 10-12 yards of dirt. That would be about 7 loads to go 3” thick. I’m thinking about marking the dirt to 275-300 a load and leaving the labor at $750 to make it appear cheaper. I can’t control the rain and I can’t control how much he waters it so I won’t be taking responsibility for the grass. I will recommend he has it hydro seaded. My current estimate is up to about I’m not hauling the dirt so that markup is pure profit. Sound more reasonable?
Do the math man....
Your Input
Area: 18000 square feet
Thickness: 3 inches
Result
You need a total of 4,500 cubic feet of topsoil, or
166.67 cubic yard of topsoil, or
3000 1.5-cubic-foot bag of topsoil, or
2572 1.75-cubic-foot bag of topsoil, or
2250 2-cubic-foot bag of topsoil, or
1500 3-cubic-foot bag of topsoil.
Your Input
Area: 18000 square feet
Thickness: 3 inches
Result
You need a total of 4,500 cubic feet of topsoil, or
166.67 cubic yard of topsoil, or
3000 1.5-cubic-foot bag of topsoil, or
2572 1.75-cubic-foot bag of topsoil, or
2250 2-cubic-foot bag of topsoil, or
1500 3-cubic-foot bag of topsoil.
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