Hey Doug, I'll be following this thread with interest as its likely we will up size our Kubota KX 161 to a compact radius 8 tonne machine in the next 12 months. According to some websites those prices are not outrageous for low hour machines. It appears low hours would be 1000-1200 hrs or less. I don't think 3000 is a lot for a machine of that size but it depends more on how its been used or abused. 6000 hrs is considered major overhaul time on a mini and probably the end of the road for many. A 308 makes the break across into the mid sized machines and most operators I talk to want 10 to 12K hrs out of their machines before getting serious with the spanners.

Track condition is a biggey. Good Luck

 

Thanks, Squizz...the local CAT dealer caled me a few moments ago...said he just sold one with 1100 hours for 58k. I like that 38k figure much better...it looks like at this rate each increment of one thousand hours has equalled ten thousand dollars.

OK, you guys who buy used equipment...are 3-4,000 hours ok for a used machine in this weight class? BTW...the John Deere dealer is trying to get me into an 80C with 4000 hours for 41k....but I really like the stats on the CAT.

 

I bought a Komatsu PC-75UU1 about a year and a half ago with 3200 hours and have had zero problems so far. Everything works, no leaks, nice clean machine. It has rubber tracks that I thought were on their last leg, but have hung in there fine so far, hopefully to be replaced with steel before this summer. I paid $18,000 for it from an equipment dealer. I would'nt be afraid of those hours on that machine at all. Mine has the ztr, and offset boom as well, and I absolutely love them. Good luck with your purchase!

 

First off, the 80C isn't zero radius swing, so it's really not in the same league as the 308CCR, but it's close. Plus, I wouldn't give them $41K for that machine with 4,000 hours given your market prices.

3,000-4,000 hours isn't a lot of hours for this piece, but how it was treated makes the difference. Would you rather have a machine with 2,000 hard hours or 4,000 "easy" or well taken care of hours. It's about like buying a car. I would take a higher mileage car for less money as long as I knew it was taken care of well beyond what was required by the manufacturer. I'll use myself as an example. I bought a 98 Audi A4 at the end of last summer after the sale of my maintenance business. I had 2 options: 1) buy an older car with under 80,000 miles, as at 80,000 miles $1,500 worth of work needs to be done (waterpump, timing belt, etc.) 2) buy a newer model year car with over 95,000 miles that I knew had the timing belt and water pump changed, otherwise the car would have blown up. I found one, bought it, and haven't looked back. I got it for a fair price and I knew the service record was impeccable. I find it's the same for equipment. If you find something with more hours, you can tell by looking at service records and the machine itself what kind of life it has had.

I know that when I get into excavation, whenever that may be, I'm not going to be able to afford anything with less than about 7K hours. So inspection is going to be key and having $3-4K in the bank as a precautionary measure for breakdowns is going to be the route I take.

 

Well, my father in law is strongly against me buing a machine from an out of state dealer based on pictures alone. I really respect his opinion, mainly because he recently retired from the construction equipment resale business (he managed the whole operation which had offices in several states). I am torn. Of course, the seller tells me he has babied the machine, but it (the machine) is in Wisconsin and I am in Virginia. His thoughts are, if it gets here it could be a total lemon. He thinks I should wait and buy a used machine locally and preferrably from a licensed dealer. Of course, that will set me back about another 20k.

If any of you are curious about what I am looking at, here is a link to it:

http://www.machinerytrader.com/listings/forsale/detail.asp?OHID=5234713&guid=290DD1749CB14C98ADCDAF5BF08DA2E7

Take a look and give me your thoughts!

 

Also, is there any way to avoid buying someone elses 'headache"? Meaning, how the heck do you avoid buing a lemon, short of always buying new? Is htere some type of service where you can pay an unbiased party to do a "pre inspection" prior to purchase?

 

If you are going to buy a machine out of your area your best bet is go take a drive or a flight to look at it. Its far cheaper than buying something from picture and get it and the thing is a piece of crap.

As for that style boom on that Cat try to avoid it one contractor here has a 312 Cat with the same style boom he says it adds too much weight above center. If he had a choice he wouldn't buy a machine like that again its too top heavy. He said if your not carefull you could roll backwards on a slope.

I would also buy the lowest hour machine you can afford why buy a half worn out machine.

Don't let anybody talk you into a Komatsu I would stick with Deere,Hitachi or Kobelco or you can go drain your wallet Yellow (Cat).

Also stick with a 16 ton machine if you are excavating you go any smaller than it takes longer to-do jobs.

One of the contractors I know bought a Hitachi Zaxis 75 its his mini machine but he can't do with out the 160 Deere which is only a year old and close to 1/2 paid for.

Keep searching you can find a perfect machine for you don't let the boom falling off the Deere scare you away from Deeres they are a tough machine.

 

Gravel Rat touched on my point. If your buying an excavator to dig foundations I wouldn't waste time with a machine that small. It can be done and have done it with my 12K machine but it will be slow. I would not go any smaller than a 120-130 size machine. I am contemplating a Case CX160 it has 1500 hours with a thumb for 70K. I would really ponder what you want your excavator to do. Unless your only digging crawl spaces, you wont have enough machine. I am currently renting excavtors to dig the foundations. The smallest machine I prefer is a 160. The basements here are almost universally 9' walls which puts them about 8' in the gound and they range from 2K square feet and up. That is a lot of material to move. Combined with the fact that with a smaller machine you will need to bail dirt out of your way a second time because of lack of boom length. Something to think about.

 

The machine you linked to is a gray market machine. There cost is almost always lower than a similar north american model. Some say parts are harder to get and others say the parts are all the same. I know a guy with a broke down gray hitachi and it'll stay that way because the part he needs costs more to make than the machine is worth. If you can't afford to risk your money, I'd be very careful if you buy a gray market machine.

 

Can someone explain what "Gray market" means?

 

Gray market is an imported machine that does not carry a "US" warranty, I think...right? But how could you tell? Was it the serial number? Cause it looks just like the other 308's.

I did like the 160 size machine, but I would REALLY like to have the "zero tailswing". If I had the money, there is no doubt I would buy either a Kobelco or a Deere/Hitachi 135...but they are hard to find with low hours at a price under six figures. I'm getting frustrated...I know I am going to need a machine in a couple of weeks and I am trying to avoid sinking upwards of 10k for two months of rent. But the voice of reason on this forum rings loud.

Also, I had not thought about the added weight from offset boom...I can see where that could present a problem. Thanks everyone for your help...keep those thoughts coming!

 

Also, I had not thought about the added weight from offset boom...I can see where that could present a problem. Thanks everyone for your help...keep those thoughts coming!

I could also see the offset boom + having less to counter balance due to the ZTR chassy making for a real tippy machine.

 

http://www.machinerytrader.com/list.../listings/forsale/detail.asp?OHID=5340537&guid=77F4D4F4AA7C4E9E95DCC6469E3DA19E

Check that out, it's in Georgia, but the price is decent. Competes with a 312 but is zero radius. I know it's way above your price range, but if you're looking for something to dig basements/footings, I think the 308 will get left behind.

 

I agree avoid the grey market machines you will have troubles getting dealer support on it.

If you are going with a zero tail swing the machine has to have the long carriage under it. The 158 Komatsu I ran I hated the way the machine bounced its a zero tail swing.

Unless you really really need the zero tailswing then go for it if you don't stick with a conventional tailswing.

The bigger machines have the reach you need especially when your digging a foundation where you can't move the machine closer.

Another thing with the bigger machine is you have the lifting power to say lift concrete septic tanks etc.

 

http://usediron.point2.com/Xhtml/Eq...tml/Equipment/Details/P2/Excavator-Crawler/KOBELCO/SK115SRDZ/268775/Photos.html

although this machine is 3/4 the way across the country its a nice excavator. Maybe a tad small but the price is right with less than 1K hours and has a dozer blade. Zero tail machines are awesome the CX225 that I rent is every bit as stable as a 210 conventional. It is nice not to have to worry about where your tail is at. They typically have greater lift capacity than a convential machine due to the location of the counter weight. The issue is they are heavier than a conventional machine of equal capacity and cost about 10-15 % more to buy. Some grey market machines are easier to buy parts for than others. Kobelco is probably the best (read easiest) to get parts for Sumitomo is also good. I have heard some horror stories of Hitachi and CAT grey market machines. The blue Kobelcos with the helicopter cabs are grey market. The Sumitomo machines are yellow and say Sumitomo (manufacturer of CASE and Link Belt excavators). The main issue with the grey market machines is the EPA restrictions. The don't qualify to our air standards. Also some parts (filters hoses etc,) are different. The internet has made getting parts for grey market machines easier. An easy why to know if your in grey market machine is all the safety decals and notices in the cab will be in a language other than english. There is also a blue sticker usually inside the door saying that it was manufactured by ***** and made for North America.

 

The Kobelco Ksss posted looks like a pretty good machine atleast that machine doesn't have the tail lights like the regular conventional machines :laugh:

Another thing to add to the grey market machines the Komatsu that are grey market are the blue color not the yellow ones.

 

I read an article in a trade magazine once that was talking about how grey market machines can cause a liability to the contractor who owns it. It went on to say that since these grey market machines didn't pass US safety standards, an operator who is injured on a grey market machine could potentially sue the contractor, or something along those lines. You'd be okay if you were working for yourself with a grey market machine, but it's just not worth the difference in cost.

 

I absolutely LOVE the Kobelco 135...in fact, I had found a 99 model for 41k delivered, but my biased "buddy" who is a Deere dealer claimed that parts are hard to get for a Kobelco and I beleived him. According to you guys, Kobelco parts are VERY easy to find. Considering you all arent trying to sell me anything, I think I beleive you a bit more! I have already contacted my local Kobelco dealer and he knows I am in the market for a 135.

Still curious how somebody could see that the CAT that I was originally interested in was a grey market machine, though!

Thanks!

 

Still curious how somebody could see that the CAT that I was originally interested in was a grey market machine, though!

Thanks!

The model (308B SR) and the serial number - only 5 digits for starters and the cab is different to that sold in most western countrys. Looks like a South American machine. However, if it was a machine destined for the asian market then its generally not a problem to get parts or cross reference parts.

I recently looked at a grey Cat mini that some clown bought. It was destined for South America and he was real upset that our dealer couldn't just "order the parts"...hell, they didn't even have a parts list for it, nothing cross referenced and generally nothing even looked the same. So much for globalisation.

 

Getting parts for Kobelco's isn't hard they are assembled in the US and I wouldn't be worried about getting parts for it.

I don't know why you guys are so scared about break downs if the machine breaks down its no big deal get it fixed.

 

Because when our machines don't run, we don't make money, it's that simple. You, on the other hand, are an operator, not the boss, so you could really give a sh!t if the machine runs or not. I'm sorry to say it man, but that's the truth. I'm not trying to be an ass about it, but you have to understand that everyday a machine is down it costs money. You and I both know that, it's just that when you're in the shoes of someone who has to pay the bill for the repair PLUS the downtime it gets a little ugly. And sometimes, you're right, it's not a big deal if they break down, but if you can't get the parts for it within a day or so then you're sinking.

The easiest way to tell if a Cat machine is grey market is if it has REGA printed on the side. That's a sure fire way to tell. REGA is marked on the cab door and on toolbox on the right side of the machine. Another way is like Squizzy was saying, the cabs looks different. I've also noticed the seats are not high backed, they are short versions, much like the seat on our 303CR.

 

Ya I'am a trucking company running excavators is just one part of the job. I also was a company mechanic when a machine broke down no one was in a huge panic we just fixed it.

Break downs are just something you got to deal with they are not the end of the world. If you are running on borderline of going broke because the machine is down you shouldn't be in business.

It does make me laugh you guys get in such a panic about a minor break down its like your company will have to fold its doors because the machine isn't working.

Order the parts and repair it simple as that and go back to work no big deal. The one contractor I worked for the boom cracked on the excavator we took it back to the shop welded up the crack and put the machine back to work.

Like I meantioned before if you can't repair your own equipment you really shouldn't own it. If the contractors here couldn't do their own repairs they wouldn't be in business with excavation machines.

Some days I was laying on my back in a landfill repairing a broken down machine its just part of the job. Do you think I liked the smell of garbage no I don't but the repairs had to be done.

With the dump trucks if they are out hauling and blow a tire you just run back to the shop and fix the tire and go back out hauling no big deal. There are times where we took the truck off the road for a few days to-do work on it. The customers job gets put on hold and the customer doesn't care just wait a few days and the job will be done.

So your guys deadly fear of break downs is way too unesscessary life is too short to be stressing out over minor things.

If you keep up on the maintenance and do inspections on your machines daily there won't be any major surprises.

So to sum it up if its BROKE FIX THE DAMN THING its easy to do. As I said if you work for a excavation contractor here and you can't pull wrenches your not working simple as that.

The boom that broke Doug Brant machine big deal patch it up and get the machine going again.

 

Here's the deal. Most of us don't just run equipment. We are landscapers so we have other things on our plate aside from the equipment. We have 2 trucks, 4 trailers, 2 pieces of equipment, a 6 man crew, and at least half a dozen customers who all want their job done NOW. I understand where you're coming from, just fix the machine. But we have other things to worry about. When our machines are down, we still have to run the crew, we can't just stop what we're doing, send the crew home, and fix the machine like you can, we'd lose way too much ground. Right now, mentally, I'm putting myself in your shoes and I know what you're saying. If I was out doing a job and it was just me and the machine and it broke down, obviously I have nothing else to focus on except getting that machine running again. But you gotta look at it from a landscaper's point of view because that's what most of us are :dancing:

 

I was just looking at a CAT 307 in pa they are a nice machine, but i feel that you get more bang for your buck with a komatsu i'm currently looking at a pc-50 mr 2 anyone have one to talk about

 

has anyone looked at or own a komatsu pc-50 mr-2 i'm looking at buying one just would like some input