Bagging is the absolute last resort for me. It will slow you down, create extra physical work lifting those heavy bags into the truck, use more gas and put more wear on the tranny from the weight, then, you have to quit early to drive to the dumpsite and probably pay money to get rid of it. Then, you're left with a sticky, smelly truck bed. Its hard to calculate an adjustment for those kind of problems. I came up with a new way to deal with the excess clippings that seems to work well. I cut one time at a slower pace to make sure I cut evenly. Then, I take the little wonder across the lawn. If there is a woods or a field next to the property, I keep pushing it in that direction. If there is not, I go about 1/2 way to the border and start from the opposite side and blow back to the center. I would say about 80% of the grass gets broken up and pushed under the turf canopy, while the other 15% gets pushed forward. That is why you have to move around a bit. Since I started this procedure, I have cut my bagging down by 80%. I now only bag near areas with landscape beds. The only drawback is the lines from the little wonder.

 

Your not going to get much more..... atleast in my experience.

Small lawns I charge the same whether I bag or not. Larger lawns I would definetly charge more to bag, but the amount would depend on how insistent the customer was on having the clippings bagged.

To limit the amount of grass you have to take away I suggest cutting first, then putting on your bagger and going over the areas where the grass is laying on top of the lawn. This time of year your bags can fill up after only a couple of passes on the lawn

 

First, thanks for offering suggestions. To hone in on my thinking, when bagging with the WB, the bag gets so damn heavy (running doubles packs it in) the machine tilts and the cut suffers. Also, the bag is gotta be about 50lbs, and awkard to lift and dump. Also, I have to do so much more walking to the back to dump. So, I was assuming a good Rider and vac system would really speed things up, especially those trips to the backyard to dump.
On the other hand, it's a lot of money for a small amount of lawns. BUT, I can see it being a big help with leaves in the fall. Help, help. OK, keep those suggestions coming.
Thanks again,
Pete

 

Switchless - Can't you bring the machine with the bag still on to the back to dump rather than carry it. If not, how about putting down a tarp in a convenient area, dumping onto the tarp, and then dragging it in back when full.

 

Switchless,
If you're going to bag regularly then I suggest that you change your complete setup to a bagging rig. Start with a Walker 42" GHS Model C or T. This mower will reduce the time that you spend cutting grass so-much-so that you will not need to raise your prices. As for emptying the hopper on the Walker some of the guys here on Lawnsite have come up with some very innovative ways to just back the mower on the trailer and then back it up a set of ramps so that you can dump right into the back of the truck. Quick and painless.

 

Richard Martin is right, a walker will speed things up for you. I run two of them with speed up kits and they have saved me alote of time doing lawns like yours. I can do more lawns bagging then spraying the clipping all over the place. No blowing off lawns in the spring , no double cuts, no blowing off cars, houses,beds that the custermer just paid you to mulch. My new worker can't believe how many more lawn we get done than his old lco that he worker for who did not bag a thing . He say's at tops a three man crew were cutting only 20 -22 lawns , where we are cutting 28- 30 lawns a day.

 

If you cut and let them lay just a little, it reduces the weight a lot. A lawn that would be 10 bags if it were collected when cut can be reduced to a bag or two if you let it dry. Plus a lot of it gets lost into the lawn.
When I used to collect clippings, I'd get as much as 1,000 # off of an urban lot with a bagger attached to the mower. I got to where I'd just side discharge it and let it lay. It looked terrible. The people would come screaming out of the house with "YOU CAN'T LEAVE MY LAWN LIKE THAT!" I'd tell them no-o-o-o, it has to dry. Then I'd come back later that day and bag it all in one bag. Then charge them for a second cut! It wasn't long before they were having a conversation with their applicator guy.

Dave

 

WALKER GHS will save you time and money in the long run and give an exceptional cut too!

 

Sounds like your customer has the problem. If they hire someone to make chemical applications on the property, it's not your fault that you have to cut more often. I would charge more to bag, even if it's a small lawn. Maybe you could charge by bag weight like they do at the landfills. Be sure to cover the pita factor. This could be a good thing. You could be forced into buying a Walker which will be more fun, and leave a nice cut.

 

I agree, it's the customers problem. Talk them into letting YOU fertilize the lawn with granular fert so you can have a little more control over it. If it's getting too expensive for them then tough, educate them on why it's happening. I wouldn't invest $10,000.00 to please them.

 

What gear are you using??

Have you tried a double blade setup? (might be pushing the limit on a WB with Velke)

jf

 

on the few lawns we do bag, most of them are bagged on the second cut, not the first. this reduces the amount of clippings we haul away.

of course, like others mentioned, another companies improper fertilization techniques should not be your problem. i would send these customers a letter at the end of the season, or talk to them in person. either tell them that they need to hire you to fertilize, or their price must be raised by xx amount of dollars. we have gotten a lot of former TGCL fertilizing accounts this way.

as far as using the rider goes, we don't use a bagging system on our riders. we use the grasspacker, or a fctory bobcat bagger. if you do get a ZTR without a factroy rear bagging system, and intend to purchase some type of system, i would suggest you purchase the TRAC VAC rear bagging system.(not the trailer type) it is run off of the main belt, by installing a double pulley(no second engine to suck up clippings)

everyone i have ever known to buy the PECO bagging system has complained about it constantly breaking down, (parts, etc.) hal;f the people i know to have bough the peco eventually went on to buy the trac vac and were much happier in the long run.

 

Originally posted by HOMER
I agree, it's the customers problem. Talk them into letting YOU fertilize the lawn with granular fert so you can have a little more control over it. If it's getting too expensive for them then tough, educate them on why it's happening. I wouldn't invest $10,000.00 to please them.

I am with Tony and Homer, This is not your fault the lawns have this much excesive growth.

You should be able to fert with out being certified in your state.

When things slow down get you cide license and "you" control the growth and weeds.

Not only will this line your pockets more in more ways than one.

 

It's a win/win situation for you AND your customer. You can make GREAT money putting down a much better product than just the straight nitrogen that they are getting, and it will give you less topgrowth (however thicker grass, but that's alright) Do a little reseach and you can tell your customers how much more beneficial a thicker, denser carpet-like turf is, and that YOU can make iot look like that for them. You cuts will look better, too. Your customer is getting better service, their lawn looks better, they aren't writing out checks to two different companies, and your cutting is a bit easier. Also, you're there every week, so you can scout for potential problems. GO for it! You're getting x amount for your services, and leaving 50% of that behind. Take it!

 

Well thanks for the continuing input and great tips. I think I'm getting a handle on the situation. I've decided to go the "fair route" of time and materials. I told the customer that it's $25 for a regular cut without bagging, $35 to cut and bag the lawn at normal cutting height and $45 to cut and bag with long grass.
Since time is money, I already made up mind that this a fair rate, and if the customer doesn't like, then I'll just drop the lawn and get another. I've been in the business long enough to realize if you do a "good job", the "good jobs" will find you. At the moment the customer has agreed to my proposal........
Pete

 

I have to agree with Homer and LGF the coustomer has the problem. you put down the chemicals and you control the growth and that's great profit.

 

I really don't want to get involved with chemicals, licenses and the added liability costs of that gig. Frankly, I don't want the responsibiity, either. For me, that's the beauty of just cutting the grass and letting customer deal with the chemicals and how they work. Thanks for the thought though. Also, I do agree it's the customers problem.
Pete

 

I can see a problem in my future. I use WB's with velkys. Speed is not a problem, and my machine are faster than a rider for what I do. However, I have more and more lawns that are "chemlawn, techlawn, or whatever" treated. OK, the problem is even with cutting twice a week, I can't get rid of the grass. I need to bag or blow the grass. It's getting expensive for the customer, which I can understand. It looks like I may need to get a bagging rider to speed things up.
Now, I hate riders because they just bounce too much for me, and I don't have big lawns. Everything is under 1 acre. However, since I will be bagging I will be going slower, so I won't have a problem. My question is, how do I price the "use" of the riding bagger?? In other words, If I get $60 an hour to cut with my WB's, how much more per hour is a "rule of thumb" that I can use when riding and bagging the lawn, if I buy an $8,000/$9,000 riding bagger????
Thanks in advance.
Pete

Pete, so have you gotten a rider yet?

 

Pete, you live in NJ. And you will probably have a problem with waste disposal. [in regards to grass clippings.] Heck, you could probably just dump em' in the Kills. I worked the New York Harbor for many years, and I have seen many residential along the Jersey Turnpike, near the City. My question: what is the size of the accounts/account in question? If they are typical, say from Jersey City to Perth Amboy, they are small. Personaly, I use the 3 bagger system offered by Huster Turf Equipment on a Hustler Z. I can bag several, what we call, zero line lots, which are a lot bigger than say those along the TP, without filling up the 3 bags. If you run such a setup on a Hustler Z, while using double Gator blades, [mulches grass finer] you will find that you can pack the mower's bags to the point in which the front wheels will float. This is in conjunction with using the Hustler front castor weight kit, [supplied] which means you can bag a lot of grass clippings. The grass clippings [from the mower's bag], once filled, will easily fill a 39 gallon trash bag. Hustler manufactures an alternative to the 3 bagger, it is called the Bac Vac. I would suggest you check with your local Hustler dealer to see if he can arrange a demo for you.
cheers, kenny :laugh:
You should seriously consider a Hustler for your next "rider."

You can view the 3 bagger at www.grasscatchersusa.com they supply the one that the Hustler dealer sells.

 

You guys might not get a response on this one... this thread is from may of 2002!!! Good luck anyways.

 

I was spoofing Pete! A post from the archive....I didn't check. I shouda known. Huh Pete?
kenny.

 

I had this same problem last year. At first I would blow the clippings around and spend time making it look nice. Finally said screw this started leaving windrows of grass. Customers got pissed and I told them they got way to much fert on their grass, you dont want grass clumps I come twice a week or I can bag it which would be more then me coming twice a week. Most of these lawns were getting some many apps it was burning the lawn and getting brown. Of course customer blames the mower guy and not the guy putting chemicals on the grass

 

You guys might not get a response on this one... this thread is from may of 2002!!! Good luck anyways.

 

Get a Wright Stander for those properties. Don't bag, just double cut the yards. The Stander is perfect for those type of yards.

 

Routes Take 2-3 Times Longer in the Early Spring When We Bag....The Whole Trick to Being a Full Time Mowing Contractor is to be able to Handle Enough Property's During the Heavy Growth Period in the Spring to sustain Yourself Through the Easy Mowing Periods. For example, In the Summer one Crew May be able to Cut 10-15 Property's Per Day More than They Could Have in the Spring...Therefore You Best Bust Your Azz in the Spring.

Changing Prices is Bush League. One Price & You Catch Mow or Discharge based on the Season.

Accelerators Work Just fine for the Few Weeks We have to Catch.