This seed is coated with various types of beneficial endo-mycorrhizal fungi as a means to help the newly-germinated seed hopefully gain a better root interface with the soil, so that it will be able to pick up nutrients more efficiently over time, and be more water-efficient, etc.

I've been using endo-mycorr in my grow-ins for about 3 years now, but I wouldn't buy overpriced 'treated' seed. That stuff is really meant to be focused toward the retail market.
I instead buy (in bulk quantities) a product called MycoGrow Hydro, and apply it to the finished seed bed using water that's been cleared of chlorine, fluoride, and other municipal nasties.

Here's the site that I use:
http://www.fungi.com/mycogrow/index.html

The key thing about using beneficial fungi in turf or in the landscape is that you have to feed them!:waving:
And... "feeding them"... doesn't imply the use of atmosphere or mine-derived fertilizers! :laugh: As a matter of fact, a constant barrage of lawn chemicals and/or fertilizers onto seed treated with beneficial spores would most certainly negate any positive result over time.
(Why doesn't Pennington or Scotts say anything about this? Beats me! They probably think people will get scared away with...."too much information".:laugh

Feeding these spores calls for a long-term program that would include practices like the application of semi-decomposed vegetable proteins (compost), or regular feedings with high protein products such as corn gluten, corn meal, soybean meal, cotton seed meal, etc.

Little did you know it, but you stumbled upon an organic forum topic....:waving:

 

That smart seed is for dumb azzes. Just stick with the Team-Mates that you can find at Lesco (Yes they will always be called Lesco by me). And use Penn mulch or some sort of seed accelerator.

 

I took a look at the bag of some Scotts "Water Smart" Turfbuilder seed. Rye and blue--OK mix--But--seed is coated with some of that water absorbing gel. And if you can believe it--because of the gel, there are 51 percent inert ingredients. So you get a lot less seed in the 3 lb bag. I am surprized the state seed lab authority allows this. I think they claim a bag covers 1500 sqft.

I s it allowed in your state?

 

This seed is coated with various types of beneficial endo-mycorrhizal fungi as a means to help the newly-germinated seed hopefully gain a better root interface with the soil, so that it will be able to pick up nutrients more efficiently over time, and be more water-efficient, etc.

I've been using endo-mycorr in my grow-ins for about 3 years now, but I wouldn't buy overpriced 'treated' seed. That stuff is really meant to be focused toward the retail market.
I instead buy (in bulk quantities) a product called MycoGrow Hydro, and apply it to the finished seed bed using water that's been cleared of chlorine, fluoride, and other municipal nasties.

Here's the site that I use:
http://www.fungi.com/mycogrow/index.html

The key thing about using beneficial fungi in turf or in the landscape is that you have to feed them!:waving:
And... "feeding them"... doesn't imply the use of atmosphere or mine-derived fertilizers! :laugh: As a matter of fact, a constant barrage of lawn chemicals and/or fertilizers onto seed treated with beneficial spores would most certainly negate any positive result over time.
(Why doesn't Pennington or Scotts say anything about this? Beats me! They probably think people will get scared away with...."too much information".:laugh

Feeding these spores calls for a long-term program that would include practices like the application of semi-decomposed vegetable proteins (compost), or regular feedings with high protein products such as corn gluten, corn meal, soybean meal, cotton seed meal, etc.

Little did you know it, but you stumbled upon an organic forum topic....:waving:

I found the Pennington site with the Smart Seed marketing, and all that's mentioned regarding beneficial endo-mycorrhizal fungi are the words "exclusive MYCO Advantage technology" in the bullet points & on the packaging.

http://www.penningtonseed.com/ProductDetails.aspx?id=69

Certainly this is NOT exclusive to just Pennington, at least in the eyes of organic lawn contractors.
Retail customers buying high margin crap in box stores? Maybe.
But I'll bet others catch on as time goes by.

 

This seed is coated with various types of beneficial endo-mycorrhizal fungi as a means to help the newly-germinated seed hopefully gain a better root interface with the soil, so that it will be able to pick up nutrients more efficiently over time, and be more water-efficient, etc.

I've been using endo-mycorr in my grow-ins for about 3 years now, but I wouldn't buy overpriced 'treated' seed. That stuff is really meant to be focused toward the retail market.
I instead buy (in bulk quantities) a product called MycoGrow Hydro, and apply it to the finished seed bed using water that's been cleared of chlorine, fluoride, and other municipal nasties.

Here's the site that I use:
http://www.fungi.com/mycogrow/index.html

The key thing about using beneficial fungi in turf or in the landscape is that you have to feed them!:waving:
And... "feeding them"... doesn't imply the use of atmosphere or mine-derived fertilizers! :laugh: As a matter of fact, a constant barrage of lawn chemicals and/or fertilizers onto seed treated with beneficial spores would most certainly negate any positive result over time.
(Why doesn't Pennington or Scotts say anything about this? Beats me! They probably think people will get scared away with...."too much information".:laugh

Feeding these spores calls for a long-term program that would include practices like the application of semi-decomposed vegetable proteins (compost), or regular feedings with high protein products such as corn gluten, corn meal, soybean meal, cotton seed meal, etc.

Little did you know it, but you stumbled upon an organic forum topic....:waving:

Great post Marcos- very educational/ informative. Well written.

 

It is called "smart seed" because in most cases, the bag of seed is smarter than the gullible joe schmoe purchasing it...just like all other "scotts" products.

 

Exactly Runner. It's some very SMART marketing. Load of crap. I like Riggle's post about it being 51% gel by weight, but still covering 1500 feet!!

 

I sent an e-mail to Pennington Seed. Inc. last night regarding "MYCO advantage", and the use of common pesticides & fertilizer.
The entire communication is as follows...

Notice how Mr. Auge carefully avoids my 2 main questions entirely! :wall

-----------------

Q : You promote the "MYCO advantage" as a way to enhance the root system so that a lawn can access nutrients & use water more efficiently. This is 100% true.

But what about potential damage to these spores because of subsequent future repeat pesticide applications and "traditional" non organic fertilizer, and the various salts they contain?
To simulate what occurs in nature, don't these beneficial spores need to be FED occasionally with organic proteins such as compost, and/or high protein meals such as soybean meal, in order to perpetuate themselves in a particular consumer's lawn into the future?

A : These organisms are found world-wide and are all natural. Most “good” soil will already have mycorrhiza and many areas are depleted of mycorrhiza by compaction, land stripping, etc. Our product re-introduces what should already be there. This is from our www.SmartSeed.com website:

Naturally occurring soil micro-organisms can become destroyed or depleted over time, often times a result of increasing environmental stress, the use of harsh chemicals and today’s construction practices, including grading of home and building sites. This can result in lifeless, compacted soil that makes it very difficult to grow grass much less a thick, lush, healthy lawn. The micro-organisms in MYCO Advantage™ correct this by attaching to the emerging seed roots, helping the grass grow a denser, deeper root system. And the result is a healthier, thicker lawn that utilizes available nutrients and fertilizer more efficiently, and requires up to 30% LESS WATER... the way nature intended.

Have a great day!

Mike Auge
Customer Service & IS Manager
Greenfield Missouri Division
Pennington Seed, Inc.

 

yep, generally speaking I think it's a waste of money if you have crap soil to begin with. The only way it would be worth while in my area (heavily compacted acid clay, devoid of calcium, P and sometimes K) is to till in tons of compost/topsoil and start all over. Then the myco's might stand a chance. In this case, the extra cost of beneficial myco would be only a fraction of the cost of the entire renovation. So, in the lawns that would really benefit from it, that would be only one piece of the puzzle. The lawns that have good soil and could support its growth probably wouldn't really need it or benefit from it in the first place. I'll use it in small quantities around plants/mulch beds, but not on large areas.

 

Hate to rain on you all's parade, but I just planted 2 acres of this stuff, and so far I love it. It took forever to come up, but once it took off.........It looks really good. I can't believe it's thriving in the tennessee heat/humidity. All neighbors said it wouldn't last a week in this heat, i hope the don't turn out to be right. I just keep the sprinklers going, twice daily for 90 minutes in each zone. I will laugh when their bermuda is brown in october.

 

Hate to rain on you all's parade, but I just planted 2 acres of this stuff, and so far I love it. It took forever to come up, but once it took off.........It looks really good. I can't believe it's thriving in the tennessee heat/humidity. All neighbors said it wouldn't last a week in this heat, i hope the don't turn out to be right. I just keep the sprinklers going, twice daily for 90 minutes in each zone. I will laugh when their bermuda is brown in october.

You forked out the dough for enough Smart Seed to cover 2 acres, huh?
Well, then I've got a bridge up here I'd like to... :laugh:

 

Hate to rain on you all's parade, but I just planted 2 acres of this stuff, and so far I love it. It took forever to come up, but once it took off.........It looks really good. I can't believe it's thriving in the tennessee heat/humidity. All neighbors said it wouldn't last a week in this heat, i hope the don't turn out to be right. I just keep the sprinklers going, twice daily for 90 minutes in each zone. I will laugh when their bermuda is brown in october.

Waylon, that seed is supposed to REDUCE water usage. Twice daily for 90 minutes---on 2 acres. You can keep that water bill, holy crap.

Apparantly the seed is smart........it got you to buy it and water the piss out of it.

 

I was in Home Depot looking at this crap and the 20 lb. bag cost $60.00! So, I began to look at the ingredients - after all, an educated customer won't want to plant Creeping Red Fescue in the sunny areas. Uggh, it's in there! To top it all off, there's only 10 pounds of sun/shade mixture in the 20 lb. bag, so you're paying $6.00 per pound for undesireable seed!

Scotts is a GREAT marketing company and all of their products as well as their lawn service, is geared towards maximizing profits at the expense of their customers and their employees.

No

 

after all, an educated customer won't want to plant Creeping Red Fescue in the sunny areas. Uggh, it's in there!

This depends upon what climate zone you live in.
Sunny turf north of here in northern Michigan & Wisconsin and into Canada could be a relatively small % of CRF and still do well, without getting thatchy &/or diseased.

Here in Ohio, CRF belongs in the shade, definitely.

So unless Scotts is packaging & marketing materials differently for different regions of the country & world (which I very much doubt they're doing ), I agree with you that Scotts shouldn't be promoting CRF for sunny areas.

 

I agree--hate creeping red fescue--partly because those words usually mean generic quality (low). Second from the bottom is "Boreal" red fescue--also old fashioned, cheap and almost as bad as generic. If it has "Boreal" I assume the rest of the varieties are also junk. Red fescue around here gets dollarspot bad at this time of year. Red thread at times. Dies in hot weather. Not as good as rye in the shade.

 

Hey guys it would take me a while to find the thread here but it was last Sept when I did my yard.

I was asking for what seed to use, what was best and I kept being pointed in the direction of this MYCO advantage crap. After going to Lowes, first seeing it was a mix and not 100% tall fescue I didn't want it anyhow and second, yea the price really turned me off and glad now I used my own common sence.

Even after replying in the thread saying what I just said above this MYCO advantage was still recomended and I was told this was my only option if I wanted a healthy yard

 

I took a look at the bag of some Scotts "Water Smart" Turfbuilder seed. Rye and blue--OK mix--But--seed is coated with some of that water absorbing gel. And if you can believe it--because of the gel, there are 51 percent inert ingredients. So you get a lot less seed in the 3 lb bag. I am surprized the state seed lab authority allows this. I think they claim a bag covers 1500 sqft.

I s it allowed in your state?

Riggs, yes, that coating does add a lot to the inert ingredients content, but it isn't really the rip-off you think it is. I used to work for Scotts... and I can't begin to tell you how many people looked the size and weight of a bag of seed, looked at the price and came to incorrect conclusions.

It's all about the cost vs. how many sq feet it will cover. The inert ingredients are taken into account this way. Scotts gets several univerities to perform studies... germination rates (studies indicate that this coating greatly improves germoination rates especially for home owners who may not water new seedings enough) and Scotts, then based soley on the university studies, and not their own testing, comes up with how much weight of coated seed is needed per thousand sq feet.

That corn starch derivitive coating does help seed to stay moist. That does impove germination rates. No, it's not a pro's seed, it's for homeowners. One thing about the Pennington and Scotts "premuim" seeds is the weed seed content. It's pretty low, while an awful lot of the so called pro seeds have waytoo much grassy weed seed in it for my liking, and that is based on experience. The commercial versions of Scotts seed is pretty freakin good.

When Bethpage State park closed the black course for a year to completely renovate it for this year's US Open golf torunament, they used Scotts tri-rye for the fairways. Freain fairways were immaculate, perfect.

I do use some of the retail Scotts seed, but only for customers that I know will slack on irrigation.... that coating does help in such cases. I'm talkin small jobs, small areas. Heck, I've even used the stupid "Easy Seed" product for spot repairs, but I charge for it. Is IS easy, but expensive, but the stuff will grow grass on concrete.

I've used the Pennington coated "deep shade" mix in areas with NO direct sunlight and had surpisingly good results. There is a place in my arsenal for all of these consumer products, albeit a small one. I'll say this.... I will never, ever use another seed that is labeled for 99% weed free.... it HAS to be 99.9% or I won't use it. Freakin annual rye and other grassy weeds are what will be in those supposedly called pro mixes.

 

Scotts gets several univerities to perform studies... germination rates (studies indicate that this coating greatly improves germoination rates especially for home owners who may not water new seedings enough) and Scotts, then based soley on the university studies, and not their own testing, comes up with how much weight of coated seed is needed per thousand sq feet.

With all due respect, Scotts should provide that data to everyone who wants to see it. Without trying to sound too negative or ruin this thread, I don't believe that Scotts would have university studies for this but I could be wrong. I would like to see them.

The only reason I'm skeptical is because I used to work for them myself and while there, I found them to be the most unethical company that someone would ever want to work for. After all, Scotts used to advertise on their Scotts Lawn Service commercials that all of their techs were graduates of the "Scotts Lawn Institute". Well, that couldn't have been further from the truth because their IS NO "Scotts Lawn Institute". When Scotts hires their lawn service applicators, they start them out with Limestone applications because you don't need a license for that. Within a week, they're sending you off for the applicator's test and if you passed, you're out applying fertilizer with no experience whatsoever. That's the truth and that's why Scotts does not have a good reputation in my area at all. They're losing customers at very high rates, employee turnover is over 200% yearly and because of this, they've had to close one of their branches during the last year. Their market share is shrinking and it's because they are only good at marketing and not good at everything else.

 

Complete marketing gimmick.

Nothing more.

 

With all due respect, Scotts should provide that data to everyone who wants to see it. Without trying to sound too negative or ruin this thread, I don't believe that Scotts would have university studies for this but I could be wrong. I would like to see them.

The only reason I'm skeptical is because I used to work for them myself and while there, I found them to be the most unethical company that someone would ever want to work for. After all, Scotts used to advertise on their Scotts Lawn Service commercials that all of their techs were graduates of the "Scotts Lawn Institute". Well, that couldn't have been further from the truth because their IS NO "Scotts Lawn Institute". When Scotts hires their lawn service applicators, they start them out with Limestone applications because you don't need a license for that. Within a week, they're sending you off for the applicator's test and if you passed, you're out applying fertilizer with no experience whatsoever. That's the truth and that's why Scotts does not have a good reputation in my area at all. They're losing customers at very high rates, employee turnover is over 200% yearly and because of this, they've had to close one of their branches during the last year. Their market share is shrinking and it's because they are only good at marketing and not good at everything else.

The lawn applications unit is completely seperate from the retail products group, and yes, they outright lie about the aforementioned unit. Some of those outfits are franchised, and they have little control over them, while the company owned units generally do provide minimally adequate training. Like many similar subjects, like market prices, what national companies do here may be very dfferent than elsewhere, as even the laws differ greatly from state to state.

The data I refer to I saw on line... can't remember where, could have even been on the restricted access Scotts employee site... but I don't think so... might have been a press release.

The coating is mostly a marketing gimmick, but it does, nonetheless, keep seed wetter longer than uncoated seed. The Pennigton coating also has some real, if minimal benefits too.

tional does here may be very different than elsewhere.