Hello, I am new to the forum. I have recently prepared and reseeded a bare lawn (5000 sq.ft. area) with a shade fescue mix. I live in zone 7a. After seeding and covering with straw we got a torrential downpour from an isolated T-storm. - Just my luck - My question is should I just remove the straw and start the whole process over again? I pre-treated the soil with gypsum and seed start fertilizer - I fear it is all washed away. My straw stayed in place for the most part, but I suspect the seed is gone. What is my best option now? Thanks.
Gramen
Well, there was only one area that had the straw wash away. It was sloped purposely for drainage. It would not be a problem to reseed. It was a very heavy rain - about 2 inches in one hour. The straw stayed put everywhere else, but the water was ponding. The soil has a lot of clay - this the gypsum. Also, I used about 40% winter rye as a nurse crop.
Without any pictures or being there If I was you I'd probably just revel and seed that area and water the seed in
Then after it sprouts you can see any areas that need some more seed
Then after it sprouts you can see any areas that need some more seed
I think Hal is right. Hort, too. Rain is good for grass--within reason. I would expect most of it to come up in about 10 days. Keep it moist constantly. Straw should protect the seed. Probably the water from the storm drained away by now.
Reseed or overseed where the straw washed away.
Shade fescue mix--is that turf type tall fescue? Creeping red fescue? What exact cultivars? Is it disease resistant? Low in weed seeds? Cheap seed or the good stuff?
Germination at least 80 percent at the time of testing? How old? What date was the germination last tested? Seed could lose 1 or 2 percent a month in germination if the storage was not cold storage.
I would expect the tallest sprouts to be a half-inch tall in 7 days--if--the afternoon temps are at least 80 degrees.
I am not sure I like the winter rye as a nurse crop.
Can you get photos?
Please plan to add "grow-in" fertilizer at about 3 weeks and 6 weeks after sowing the seed.
Reseed or overseed where the straw washed away.
Shade fescue mix--is that turf type tall fescue? Creeping red fescue? What exact cultivars? Is it disease resistant? Low in weed seeds? Cheap seed or the good stuff?
Germination at least 80 percent at the time of testing? How old? What date was the germination last tested? Seed could lose 1 or 2 percent a month in germination if the storage was not cold storage.
I would expect the tallest sprouts to be a half-inch tall in 7 days--if--the afternoon temps are at least 80 degrees.
I am not sure I like the winter rye as a nurse crop.
Can you get photos?
Please plan to add "grow-in" fertilizer at about 3 weeks and 6 weeks after sowing the seed.
Thanks. Here is a photo of the tag on the shade mix. The brand is "bwi 5 star extreme shade mix." The winter rye has no label I could find, might be in my truck. I bought both at a local co-op. The rye was unloaded off the truck the day I bought it, but who knows how old it is. It has been 5 days and I can see some rye germinating, but not the grass. I can take a photo tomorrow, if you think that would help. Appreciate the help.
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The winter rye will come up fast. We used it along roadwork we did to reduce erosion. Some of it will keep growing year after year and will have a negative effect on a lawn since the color, growth rate, and stems will be hard to control with herbicides.
2" in 1 hour is a LOT of rain. Fescue germinates pretty quick - 10 days you should see good germination. Since you are in zone 7A, plenty of time to wait 10 days and look at germination rate before deciding if you need to redo. Not sure how you seeded (if you just tossed on top of soil lots probably washed away), but I highly recommend slice seeding since it gives excellent seed to soil contact and helps prevent washout. Aeration/overseeding pales in comparison to slice seeding IMO (yes I've done both).
It was a deluge. I will watch closely for the next 7 days and decide then, based on everyone's input. If I redo, I will look into renting a slice seeder, unfortunately, this area has a lot of small, subsurface rocks that might cause problems with that. Also, I will make sure to top-cut or mow the annual rye before it produces seed.
The seed looks good. For instance "cultivar "Regenerate" is on the list of Maryland approved tall fescue varieties.
Rhizingmoon sounds good by looking at the tech sheet.
The other varieties--not sure--but to me--the names are familiar. You can look up the tech sheets from the big seed companies.
The test date is January and if we assume 2 percent loss of germination in storage at ordinary temps in 7 months, that is a 14 percent loss. Subtracting from the original 90 percent germination reduces it to 76 percent.
If the seeding rate was 8 pounds per thousand--and you divide by .76 you get a needed rate of about 10 pounds per thousand sqft.
Keep watering every day for 30 days--you should have great results.
Did you include annual rye--or do you mean cereal rye?
Not likely either would go to seed if you mow regularly.
Rhizingmoon sounds good by looking at the tech sheet.
The other varieties--not sure--but to me--the names are familiar. You can look up the tech sheets from the big seed companies.
The test date is January and if we assume 2 percent loss of germination in storage at ordinary temps in 7 months, that is a 14 percent loss. Subtracting from the original 90 percent germination reduces it to 76 percent.
If the seeding rate was 8 pounds per thousand--and you divide by .76 you get a needed rate of about 10 pounds per thousand sqft.
Keep watering every day for 30 days--you should have great results.
Did you include annual rye--or do you mean cereal rye?
Not likely either would go to seed if you mow regularly.
This is annual rye. Not the perennial grass rye. It is coming up just fine. Of course, it is not lawn grass. It was a nurse crop, but at least it will hold the soil down. Jury is still out on the fescue, but I am watching. According to your estimate I underseeded the fescue though. If it comes up sparse because of the heavy rain and my underseeding what would you recommend? Would it be a waste to add more fescue over the wet straw and water it in well? Not sure what to do in that case. Thanks again to everyone's help.
I am not sure of the best plan in this case. I have not tried to seed on top of straw. And seed is expensive. But if you want to be sure--go for it. Extra seed--can't hurt.
Keep the water coming. Water is cheap compared to seed, labor and fertilizer. Water should wash the seed off the straw and carry it down to the soil.
More info.
Most grass seed needs to be sown at about 25 seeds per square inch. Sorry, I could not find the specific data for tall fescue seeds per square inch.
I found a grass seed calculator--
alseed.com
Keep the water coming. Water is cheap compared to seed, labor and fertilizer. Water should wash the seed off the straw and carry it down to the soil.
More info.
Most grass seed needs to be sown at about 25 seeds per square inch. Sorry, I could not find the specific data for tall fescue seeds per square inch.
I found a grass seed calculator--
Grass Seeding Rates for New Lawn Establishments - Albert Lea Seed
Check out this helpful article by Lily Palokangas, Albert Lea Seed Garden Center Horticulturist about grass seeding rates for new lawn establishment and check out our fantastic line up of grass seed!
alseed.com
After 21 days, any 'wet straw' if left should be removed and the new grass should be mowed at 3" or higher. Then leave what you have (hopefully it's a full stand of new grass) and wait until next overseeding time is ripe in your area (which may be a year away).
No worries. Great! I will do that Everyone has been very helpful and I have learned a lot already. I appreciate the links as well. I will check back in here next week when I can tell how the fescue mix seeds are doing. And when all is done I will share the info with everyone. I will watch the thread if any more suggestions arrive. Much obliged! -
PS - I leveled, aerated and then went back over with a tiller and loosened the top 2 inches, then used a broadcast seeder to spread the seed and put down straw. And, I applied grass seed starter fertilizer at the recommended rate.
PS - I leveled, aerated and then went back over with a tiller and loosened the top 2 inches, then used a broadcast seeder to spread the seed and put down straw. And, I applied grass seed starter fertilizer at the recommended rate.
For future seed jobs, everyone, you might want to get a rain gauge with a one-inch square opening. Spread the seed and check to see if you applied the proper amount of seed per square inch. Show the customer--photograph and send by email if necessary. And keep for your records.
For instance bluegrass needs about 27 seeds per square inch.
www.taylorusa.com
For instance bluegrass needs about 27 seeds per square inch.
ClearVu® Sprinkler Gauge
• 1" sprinkler capacity• Acts as a water conservation gauge• Mount on a post or directly in the ground
www.taylorusa.com
Absolutely! The square inch rule is an especially great tip.👍For future seed jobs, everyone, you might want to get a rain gauge with a one-inch square opening. Spread the seed and check to see if you applied the proper amount of seed per square inch. Show the customer--photograph and send by email if necessary. And keep for your records.
For instance bluegrass needs about 27 seeds per square inch.
ClearVu® Sprinkler Gauge
• 1" sprinkler capacity• Acts as a water conservation gauge• Mount on a post or directly in the ground
Finally, I found the chart showing the seeding specifications. Including the number of seeds per square inch.
Small seeds like bluegrass need more. Large seeds like tall fescue need a bit less. That is 14 to 17 per square inch. Bentgrass needs more, a lot more. Look at the column on the far right for this data.
This from Seed Research of Oregon.
This data is calculated from the usual pounds per acre rate and dividing down to a square inch and then using the seeds per pound number--somehow.
www.sroseed.com
Small seeds like bluegrass need more. Large seeds like tall fescue need a bit less. That is 14 to 17 per square inch. Bentgrass needs more, a lot more. Look at the column on the far right for this data.
This from Seed Research of Oregon.
This data is calculated from the usual pounds per acre rate and dividing down to a square inch and then using the seeds per pound number--somehow.
Seed Research | Pro Turf
Choose DLF Seed Reasearch brand for exceptional turf quality, density, and disease resistance on your golf course. Our Seed Reasearch varieties ensure healthy, resilient, and beautiful playing surfaces.
www.sroseed.com
I wanted to follow up on my situation. After about 10 days I could see that the fescue was not coming in adequately after that flood, so I started over. The perennial rye was growing fast so I raked off most of the straw and then mulched- mowed the straw and perennial rye grass in place. I went back over the area with the tiller to scarify the top layer and mix in the mulched rye and straw material. I have now reseeded with the shade mix fescue, put straw over it and started watering it. I should have some sturdy grass before first frost with any luck. As a comparison, I seeded a different small area a few days after the flood and it has come up beautifully. Thanks for all the suggestions, feedback and good info!
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