My experience using a vibratory plow results in less work, faster installs, cleaner installation( no glueing) and the yard doesn't look like a war zone.
We used to do the trenching, but now we do the subsurface and polypipe installations. Trenching took to long, depending on soil condition and depth, lots of cross over trenches, then we had to go back and clean the trench, cut pvc pipe, glue,set and bury pipe by hand. We also came back a week later to fill the trench due to settling. With the plow and poly pipe all you do is plow your lines, dig holes where your going to tee into, connect and bury the small area hole. We also liked it because since we used poly throughout the system, the sprinklers could be moved/adjusted rather than fixed with PVC. With poly pipe we also used the "press fit couplings" no glueing. You can also run cable,telephone and low voltage wiring. And how much was all this equipment??? about 19K

 

If you don't want to use poly pipe you can only plow 1 pvc pipe at a time you can plow onther pipe about 6 inches away from it and so on. I'm not saying you can't plow more than one pvc pipe at a time I just don't recommend it. Poly pipe on the other hand we will plow three pipes at a time you can plow 5 or 6 poly pipes but then it gets to be a pain for the service point of fixing the pipes and making the initial connections. Trenchins is alot more labor intensive and on residential installs its not very economical to have the extra equipment for compacting the dirt back in the trench to keep from settling.

 

Only way to go is a vib. plow. Fast and clean, and in this area if you used a chain trencher on an established yard, you would be out of business in a heartbeat.

 

I am not famailiar with the vibratory plow - we use an MT52 with a trencher - but I would like to know more about it.

How deep will it lay pipe?
How large diameter of pipe will it lay? (frequently we are using 11/2" to 2" for mainlines and some laterals)
How fast will it lay pipe?

Thanks Guys,
Fescue

 

depending on the size of the plow you can go from 1" to 2 1/2" pipe and the depth of up to 5' with a big enough machine. The standard Case Maxi sneaker you could plow up to 1 1/2" pipe about 8 to 15 inches deep depending on the blade and soil conditions. If you do alot of commercial work the Vermeer LM-42 is the best compact machine for the job even great on most residential. With a good operator you can lay the pipe in the ground on a normal 10 12 zone house in about 4 hours all you have to do is dig up for the connections. Very minimall damage to existing lawns.

 

We use a vibratory plow and a trencher on the dingo when needed. We order our 1" PVC with one end belled so that it eliminates the need for a 1" coupler. (anyone else use pvc with belled ends?)

We lay it out over the yard how we want it and glue it then start pulling. Most big jobs we can have all the pipe pulled in a half a day or so. Then the rest of the time is digging up where ya need too. Trencher IMO is the way to go if there is no grass cause ya eliminate having to dig alot to put in your tess and 90*'s.

 

A plow is the only way to go. It is so much faster and less of a mess to get to look right when you are done the same day. You can get a mini for around $1000 or get a maxi for 2500 and it would be more than enough to get started at least that is what I did.

 

If you don't want to use poly pipe you can only plow 1 pvc pipe at a time you can plow onther pipe about 6 inches away from it and so on. I'm not saying you can't plow more than one pvc pipe at a time I just don't recommend it. Poly pipe on the other hand we will plow three pipes at a time you can plow 5 or 6 poly pipes but then it gets to be a pain for the service point of fixing the pipes and making the initial connections. Trenchins is alot more labor intensive and on residential installs its not very economical to have the extra equipment for compacting the dirt back in the trench to keep from settling.

You can glue the bell end pvc pipe together and pull hundreds of feet , I have been doing it with a plow for over 20 years . I also attach 2 or 3 chinese fingers and pull 2 or 3 seperate runs at the same time. If you are average with a machine you can plow the pipes as colse as 2 inches from each other.

I do have a ditch witch plow for sale if anyone is looking for one .

 

New Member! Great Forum. Started business three years ago. I have been using a Line Ward L-2 Machine. Info can be found at their web site, lineward.com.
Great machine! minimally invasive to established lawns.

 

You can glue the bell end pvc pipe together and pull hundreds of feet , I have been doing it with a plow for over 20 years . I also attach 2 or 3 chinese fingers and pull 2 or 3 seperate runs at the same time. If you are average with a machine you can plow the pipes as colse as 2 inches from each other.

I do have a ditch witch plow for sale if anyone is looking for one .

Never tryed to plow more than 1 pvc pipe at a time we mostly just use pvc for main line and poly for laterals unless otherwise specified Thanks for the info I will have to try that on my next all pvc install

 

Whats wrong with the mini trencher? A trench 1" wide by 8" deep doesn't wreck the yard!

 

Whats wrong with the mini trencher? A trench 1" wide by 8" deep doesn't wreck the yard!

A trencher takes longer than a plow , trenches settle , dirt has to be shoveled back into a hole , more seeding , more damage to the lawn , did I say slower.

 

One guy here lays all the pipe out then just cuts the sod folds it out of the way and then trenches, puts the pipe in the ground, then connects the tee's, hooks up the funny pipe and leaves it sticking out, once all conections are glued he fills it all in and connects the heads! If you have all your dirt on the bottom of your sod that is flipped over then you have minimal problems associated with settling because all the dirt that came out it going right back in the same hole it came out of. Once this is done he adjusts the heads and he is done.

 

Eliminate cutting the sod , folding it away , trenching , and backfilling the trench . Thats the advantage of a plow

 

Eliminate cutting the sod , folding it away , trenching , and backfilling the trench . Thats the advantage of a plow

That is a fair and true statement. I was just trying to point out that you can use a little thought and cut down on the amount of damage you do an established lawn while still being able to use a trencher. There are some of us out there that are solo operators, doing lawn maintenance and irrigation installs can run a guy a little short in the pocket book for high dollar equipment such as a plow which would get used maybe 6 to 8 times per year. I for one could much easier afford a trencher than I could a plow, at the moment I am putting a bunch of money into an enclosed trailer and a mower so money for a plow is not in the budget. I was only trying to make a point referring back to the comment about trenchers leaving a lawn a mess. I was not arguing the fact that plows do save time. I am planning to add a couple of employees this next year if all things go as planned. Therefore a plow may be in the budget for the next year or even this fall. I would like to get to the point where I can run a maintenance crew and an install crew.

For future reference what plow do you recommend ? I will only be doing light commercial and residential for the most part.

 

I am also small , by choice , what I have found is that equipment is cheaper than labor. You do 6 systems a year , ok , with a plow you could do tripple that in the same amount of time . I can lay all the pipe for a 6 zone system in 2 to 3 hours on adverage . The lawn looks like you were never there , (another selling point) .

I have a burkeen and a ditch witch 350 sx . I prefer the more powerful machines which are fine on small residential to commercial . Plus my burkeen is 20 years old , just minor maintenance done to the machine , It was $ 22,000. new that breaks down to a bit over $ 1000.00 a year so far . If I had to trench I would have been out of this line of work years ago .

 

I suppose that I am mvong into a larger market it may pay for itself over time as I build my business. The problem is the market I am in is a smaller market and it makes it tougher on a guy when you have a limited amount of work to go around.

 

If no one else is using a plow , the market will be yours . Limits , there are none. Equipment is better than man power , more reliable , efficency is the key . I bought my burkeen for 22 grand I was 22 years old . i now have 3 houses , in aa county maryland ( not a cheap area ) 2 are paid for , numerous cars trucks garage ets , paid for . I was the second contractor to buy a plow . There were guys in business trenching for 10 years and I overtook them in my first 2 years , because I was cleaner faster and better . Have the dealer demo a plow for you , you will be impressed

 

A trencher takes longer than a plow , trenches settle , dirt has to be shoveled back into a hole , more seeding , more damage to the lawn , did I say slower.

I still don't get it! If I trench an 1 1/4" wide by 8" deep trench with an earth saw, how much damage could there be? All of the dirt or roots are reduced to small granulars which would make backfilling very easy. The mini trencher could also go on lawns at any time. If you bring a plow onto a small lot say 3000 ft2 would it not leave some damage at the turns,........ and what about the weight of the plow (leaving ruts). Also, if you are in an area where you can only do 10 residential jobs per year, then spending a few hours more trenching shouldn't matter (especially with 20k in my pocket). I agree with Turf Dancer, it comes down to your area and your other areas of business. To spend 2k on an earth saw for the first year or two seems like a smart idea. Then if you grow too big, buy the plow! (And you will still have your trencher) I can't imagine a client being upset with a 1" wide strip of dirt, it should be almost hidden by the grass blades!

 

You will save 1 day minimum on the install , Your install will look better . That day youu save is worth money , you can be somewhere else. If its too wet to leave ruts , its too wet anyway to dig you will make mud . You have to see one work , dealers will demo one for you . I have only needed a trencher 2 times in 20 years . If there are 10 jobs available to you , there is more , create the need . The plow has sold more jobs than I can count , when a potential customer sees you working and asks when are you putting in the pipe and you show them you are done , you just sold another job .

 

I live in florida and don't know of this plow. everyone around here uses a trencher. Where do u get the polypipe? can u use pvc thin wall? and what are the different kinds to choose from? I may just hire someone to mow my lawns and start putting in sprinklers if i can use this system. If i am the first one down here with it then i will get the business.

 

I dont use poly pipe , all thin wall bell end pvc , just glue it together and go . Manufacturers of plows are vemeer , burkeen ,case and ditch witch . In Florida sand installing with a plow would be like slicing butter with a hot knife .

 

Thanks i just wonder why i haven't heard of anyone using it here. I will definately check into it.

 

the problem i have seen with a plow is that you can cut your pipe pretty easially. if the plow skirts a rock or sharp object, then the rest of the legnth of pipe would scrape it.

also if you cut something with a trencher you know where it is cut. I have seen cable guys here pull 50 feet of pvc out of the ground. it was our irrigation line. we had a heck of a time finding the end.

also
plowing is not THAT much of a time savings, brcuase you have to carefully dig out each tap in.
with my mini trencher, i have all my pipe and fittings glued on and just lay them in the trench. backfilling does not take that long to do.

that's the only time savings, is the backfill. i think a lot of that is offset by the digging of each fitting.

also when you have to tee in, that is MUCH more time consuming than a tee with trenching.

no i cannot argue that it is less dammaging, but my little 2 inch trench grows in in a month or so. All the warm season grasses will spread over the trenches, so here there is no need to reseed.

 

the problem i have seen with a plow is that you can cut your pipe pretty easially. if the plow skirts a rock or sharp object, then the rest of the legnth of pipe would scrape it.

I have installed over 200 systems in all types of soil and never had that problem, or ever heard of that happening .

also if you cut something with a trencher you know where it is cut. I have seen cable guys here pull 50 feet of pvc out of the ground. it was our irrigation line. we had a heck of a time finding the end.

If you cut something , than it wasnt marked correctly by the locating company , or the machine operator screwed up . It happens both ways . If I cut something that isnt marked its not my responsibility

also
plowing is not THAT much of a time savings, brcuase you have to carefully dig out each tap in.
with my mini trencher, i have all my pipe and fittings glued on and just lay them in the trench. backfilling does not take that long to do.

This I strongly disagree with , after the pipe is pulled , it takes on adverage less than 10 minutes per head , thats dig, connect , fill and tamp . Backfilling a trench and compacting the soil takes quite a while compared to plowing and digging a small hole to make a connection .

that's the only time savings, is the backfill. i think a lot of that is offset by the digging of each fitting.

This I have to disagree with also , a plow and a trencher side by side on a 500 foot run with 10 heads 12 inches deep , clay loam soil using 1 inch poly , the man on the plow will be done in less than 1/3 the time, and look better when done .

also when you have to tee in, that is MUCH more time consuming than a tee with trenching.

That takes about 3 minutes longer than making a head connection , and 99 % of the time you plan your tee where a head goes , 1 hole serves 2 purposes.

no i cannot argue that it is less dammaging, but my little 2 inch trench grows in in a month or so. All the warm season grasses will spread over the trenches, so here there is no need to reseed.

Trenches settle , and time is money , how a job looks when its done vs 2 months after the fact is a big disadvantage when the competition is plowing .
Once you learn the tricks and shortcuts with plowing you will only trench when absolutly necessary .

Yard pro , you have a toro dingo , dont you ? demo a plow for that machine
I assume you have never installed with a plow , until I found this site I figured no one trenched , I thought that went out in the mid to late 1970"s since I started in 1981 and I had my plow back then . I have electricians that own trenchers , they pay me to plow in conduit since I am faster , and there is no lawn damage , its cheaper for them to pay me $ 2.00 a foot with a $300.00 minimum than tie up 2 electricans that can be billed out at $ 75.00 an hour plus materials .