We use an old gehl. an old Cat. and a brand new Tackehuchi for skid steers. I like all 3.

Cat has the best parts availability system. Any Cat part that's needed is available within (24) hours. Or, we can drive to the distribution warehouse (which is a warehouse that spans probably over (2) acres) and pick it up same day. second to none. well worth the money.

I suggest you consider dealer location. Buy a machine that has a dealer close by for parts, service, etc.

As far as excavator - don't buy one (just yet). Rent as needed. And this way you can rent the size machine needed for the job at hand. Don't get in over your head in debt. crawl before you walk, walk before you run.

 

For my company a mini excavator is used far more than a skid on hardscape jobs. We only use the skid loaders to move pallets around.

 

x2 Excavator gets more than double the use than the skid (all-wheel steer in my case). Small jobs we don't even bring the skid and have the pallets delivered right where we need them. Excavate, load spoil, lift large compactor, backfill & grade all with excavator.

 

I bought a skid steer and rarely use it on small hardscape projects. It's only good to have on site to do the heavy lifting on small jobs.

Excavators are made for prep work, skid steers are made for material handling and grading.

Have you thought about renting? The only reason i purchased my machine was because i had a 1.5 million dollar contract that paid for it.

 

I bought a skid steer and rarely use it on small hardscape projects. It's only good to have on site to do the heavy lifting on small jobs.

Excavators are made for prep work, skid steers are made for material handling and grading.

Have you thought about renting? The only reason i purchased my machine was because i had a 1.5 million dollar contract that paid for it.

Where I live it either rains or snows 6 months of the year so we even do most of our grading with a mini and ditch bucket, we really don't use the ctl's that much.

 

Ok guys all your info is greatly appreciated defenatly look more into renting .defenatly not getting into anymore dept just paid all that off. Did not know what is used more in hardscaping mini excavator or skid but now I know. thanks for the time you guys have given me for commenting on this post.

 

I mostly do small patios in the 150-600 sq ft range but i use a mini skid with a toothed bucket to excavate, move materials, and cleanup. Very helpful for our operation

 

If you're doing/ focusing on hardscape
Look at two things

A ditch witch zahn and a kubota l-series tractor

Sure zahn looks pricey until you add up the price of both a skid and a mini, realize the zahn will fit more places and the attachments will do more... And an l series tractor loader backhoe combo will do both jobs well enough for the cost of one machine
And it will tear up existing landscape a lot less than skid steers or tracks.

If you're doing a lot of block, how donuts move a pallet of material around, right?
Need forks.
Base material and sand?
Need bucket

Skid steer

But how do you dig your foundation?
Need mini.

Best answer, buy a used skid
Rent the mini, you will only use it the first day or two of any job.

 

I think it depends on job access and soil.

We always have room to get a full size skid and our soil is sandy. We don't have room to get a truck to the patios though. All material is dug with the skid (quickly ) hauled to the front into the truck. Then haul the base back. Without the skid being there full time no production.

 

Im confused bout a comment or two saying that skid steers are only for moving material.

Most of the pavers patios we ever built.......involved.....MOVING MATERIAL! Usually from the driveway to behind the house! It's rare when we're at a residence where you can get a F-650 or a tri-axle dump in the back yard.

Small jobs? For really small jobs - we use a 35 hp compact utility tractor.

 

X10

 

Mini X Kubota is top quality. In fact most mini x are worth a serious look. Buy local is best. Don't shop price without considering how far away you will be from service. Most guys have on site service which is crucial imo
If you go skid steer get a tracked model, Cat or Terex having one of the best and most comfortable to operate.

In a perfect world which it isn't you would have both.
Rent first, that's what we did for years before purchasing.

 

A start up contractor needs to consider other income potential.

If you live in a place with snow -you may consider a skid steer.to generate cash flow during the winter. Tracked skid steers don't do well on snow.

 

I agree 100%. Now that I have switched from new construction installs to residential work my machine sits around way more than i would like it to. Some weeks i do side jobs for tree companies just to keep the thing paid off. It's a big expense for a small company.

 

Actually tracked skid steers (roller type like Cat or Terex) are superior to wheeled machines. I've been pushing snow for years with a Terex, nothing stops it. I push over a 30' hill and get right up to the edge. Try that with a wheeled skiddy. You'll sink up to the door. lol

 

yep, the wheeled machines DO sink when trying to stack snow in big piles. (i'm considering buying an older Ag tractor with Cab for plowing because of this)

 

Buy a used (in decent shape) track skid loader. If you can find one off a lease that would probably be best. We use CAT MTL series 287D's, they also make a smaller one 257 I believe. MTL's will push snow, CTL's won't. There's the difference. Like DVS said, find a dealer that is close to you. Our CAT dealer is 5 miles down the road.

Rule of thumb is that an average hardscape crew will put 5 running hours per week on a machine. I know it doesn't seem like a lot, but they are vital machines. They dig out, stone in, move pallets, and sit, but they are a necessity. If you charge the right rates you will be fine with those low hours.

Mini-ex's will probably come next, rent for now. Demo different ones before you buy. We demoed CAT and Kubota, Kubota won out in a lot of ways.

Once you go tracks you will never go back. I will assure you.

 

Skidsteer. How are you people moving excavation spoils, base product and finish grade? Everyone should be trying to upsell by including a design and separate planting/lighting contract. We have both but a skidsteer is much more versatile. I would definitely add one as your business grows. Great for trenching, strapping outcroppings, steps, etc.

 

I have both machines, but sometimes leave the loader at the shop for small jobs. So to answer your questions about getting the job done with excavator only:
We load spoils in the truck with the excavator. Very efficient. Dig & load in one motion.
Base material is loaded into wheelbarrows through chutes in the tailgate of the mason dump. Efficient again, no shoveling, no waste, no mess in the lawn or driveway. Same for bedding sand.
Finish grade with excavator. Very efficient with either bucket or blade.

 

Skid steer is your right hand
Excavator left hand

You can get the job done with one
But having both is best in this business

 

I can't believe if you were doing an outdoor living area in the backyard that a miniexcavator would be more efficient than a skidsteer.

 

I have multiple mini excavators and skid loaders and for small patios I almost never take the skid loader, the mini excavator does almost everything faster than a skid steer if you're setup correctly and if you can get dump trucks in the backyard. Where I live I've never not been able to get a dump truck in a backyard.

 

We bought the skid first for the purpose of loading materials, moving pallets, etc. Having a skid allowed us to buy bulk mulch by the semi, which was a big plus for us. One year later I went into debt again to buy the excavator, and I've found that I can do a tremendous amount of work with the excavator. We use a cat 303.5 with a 3' smooth bucket for almost anything. We use it to get exact excavations, and either load dirt into a trailer or into wheelbarrows, then we load road pack from the truck directly into the patio, or we spread rock with it, or we spread mulch with it.. It's definitely the more productive machine. The ex does the work of 10 men and I don't pay workman's comp on it! The two machines serve different purposes for us, but the skid had to come first.

 

It's sounding like it's mostly owner operators hardscaping with the mini ex's? Or am I wrong?

Like ET dub-ya said - once you go tracks you never go back. The best aspect of a tracked machine is working in wet soil conditions. I graded a muddy backyard last week with a tracked machine, something a rubber tire would never have done. I'm so used to tracked machines, it didn't even register in my mind that I was doing something that a rubber tire can't.

I'm a Takeuchi excavator man. The most well built machine I've ran. And the holder holds my iced teas perfectly!

 

View attachment 328124 It's sounding like it's mostly owner operators hardscaping with the mini ex's? Or am I wrong?

Like ET dub-ya said - once you go tracks you never go back. The best aspect of a tracked machine is working in wet soil conditions. I graded a muddy backyard last week with a tracked machine, something a rubber tire would never have done. I'm so used to tracked machines, it didn't even register in my mind that I was doing something that a rubber tire can't.

I'm a Takeuchi excavator man. The most well built machine I've ran. And the holder holds my iced teas perfectly!

Your due for an oil change soon!

 

I can't believe if you were doing an outdoor living area in the backyard that a miniexcavator would be more efficient than a skidsteer.

Believe it!

 

Here's the way we try to approach a backyard hardscaping project:

1) Perch the mini-ex in a place where it can swing excavated dirt to the skid bucket or a dump truck. We almost always use plywood to eliminate lawn damage. The key is once the dirt is touched, don't move it twice.

2) If you're using a mini-ex to excavate, you'll be so fast with material movement/placement that you'll need all materials on site and ready on day one, so have your road pack in a truck standing by.

3) If you can't dump directly in the backyard or drive a skid back there, use the mini-ex to either scoop out of the truck/trailer and place road pack directly into the Hardscape area or into wheel barrows. Again, don't let the road pack touch the ground until it's where you're going to leave it. Do that until your base is prepped.

4) Compact in lifts until your base is ready. For us, this is our goal for day one of any Hardscape project under 700sqft.

At this point, you can show up for day two and set your screed bars, lay sand, and be laying pavers by 9:00. For a lot of jobs, we can have our pavers laid, cut in and sanded by the end of day 2. The mini-ex and skid both work together on day one to make that happen, but a two day patio is doable with the right equipment moving material. We use a four man crew for this.

 

In my neck of the woods only hack jobs drive the truck in the yard.

 

Good luck doing a 6 figure patio without driving through the yard...

 

I'll drive a truck across the yard twice before I'll make 10-12 trips with a skidsteer.. It's about production. Nobody knows the difference if a truck came in the yard or not

 

LOL - we must have a lot of guys here from Montana and Wyoming working on big ranches with all these guys saying they will/do drive a truck across the yard!!!!

Here, where I'm at, it's primarily not even physically possible. Heck, even my own property with acreage it isn't possible.

And when 22 tons of aggregate is delivered and it rained the night before what do you do?

 

And when 22 tons of aggregate is delivered and it rained the night before what do you do?

You lay out plywood and keep making money! Collateral damage is no good.

 

 

We put trucks in yards you wouldn't think a truck would ever go in.. But we've got completely different soils than y'all.

We also dump in some weird places with all the new home construction work we do.. I can count on one hand how many times I've dumped on a paved surface.

 

Most of the areas we work in the homes have less than 6' on either side of the house, most have fences, I'm not backing a loaded 1 ton down the side of a house right next to the foundation, seen too many guys get sued over a cracked foundation. We've got a few tandems, yes they go in some weird places off pavement, but I'm not going to pull a 55k lb rig in someones back yard, and 1" thick plywood isn't going to stop those ruts. Hey DVS, I'm along the IL river valley, lots of hills all over, not just flat cornfields here haha. Done lots of jobs one loader bucket at a time, sometimes its all you've got. And, to the guy who said nobody is going to notice a truck going in and out of their yard.... you must live somewhere completely devoid of this atmospheric marvel called rain, a little bit of that and you've got a mess.

 

Yep, we cracked a foundation too. Not with a truck, but a skid steer. And the skid steer never came closer than 3'

 

There are a few differences from my area to yours..

Hardly any basements. I've dug and back filled a few. But they are few and far between. Mostly craw space and slab homes here.

Rain might mess us up a little but the soil changes so drastically I can go 15min down the road from a job in red clay to a job that is all sand and get in & out with no ruts.

Also, the majority of my jobs are on lots 1/2acre or larger. We very rarely run into something that is crazy tight that requires machinery.