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kirk1701

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Discussion starter · #1 ·
Kind of continued from here but topic was different and didn't want to hi-jack someone's thread.

http://www.lawnsite.com/showthread.php?p=4451896&posted=1#post4451896

Ok, that being said I first want to answer duekster
Duekster said:
There are concerns about putting a lot of material on tree roots. Some oaks are more sensitive than others. I am more concerned about the root flare and trunk of the tree being covered. Have 0" next to the truck and taper out up to 5" on newly planted trees. 0" at the to 3" around the tree is you must. I just keep the grass off my trunk and keep a bare ring 24" or less around the trunk of my trees.

I do not use pine bark mulch. IMHO, they do not have the break down well, ammend the soil. Native Hardwood mulch is best. Cedar is second best. I also like Bois D' Arc Mulch very much as it is the hardest native tree around here and considered a scrub tree.

I do not use a Pre-Em on Beds for the most part. If it is a new bed with large shrubs it can be helpful the first season or two.
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First, what you mean by root flare?

I used the pine back on the opinion of some others that it would help make the soil acidic which was what I needed for the holy; it did the trick to soon as I put the landscaping in and got the soil acidic my 4 year old holy took off like a weed. :drinkup:

Here's some pics of the tree's I was refering to and the landscaping. Like I said I cut back most of the landscaping paper but IMHO more needs to be cut out and I can take some of the pine bark out and use elsewhere (This fall I will be expanding the landscaping in the back). So right now there is no paper up near the tree's is that good enough of should I even be thinking about pulling more out? Are the roots well enough out in the yard and deep enough they will get enough water?

Also, last picture its hard to see but the leaves are starting to curl and tree looks sick so I've been watering up around the roots, just letting the water hose run for hours and it started to look better.

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#2 ·
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See the flare at the bottom of the tree?
The base of a tree should look kind of like your foot does at the end of your leg. You do not want to see a stick like a telephone pole coming out of the ground.

Your trees look very mature. It appears as if they were left after clearing the site for the home construction. How long ago was that?

I suspect the feeder roots are far enough out into the lawn area that the fabric is not causing a problem. Trees look very tall and narrow like they were in a more dense growth with other trees.

Still do not care for fabric as it block the slow the decay of the mulch into the soil. I have heard that pine nugets can be used to help locally adjust the pH of soil.

I am more of a fan of native hard woods for mulch. It is going to return the materials from the prior generation to the current generation of native plants.
 
Discussion starter · #3 ·
Duekster said:
Image


See the flare at the bottom of the tree?
The base of a tree should look kind of like your foot does at the end of your leg. You do not want to see a stick like a telephone pole coming out of the ground.

Your trees look very mature. It appears as if they were left after clearing the site for the home construction. How long ago was that?

I suspect the feeder roots are far enough out into the lawn area that the fabric is not causing a problem. Trees look very tall and narrow like they were in a more dense growth with other trees.

Still do not care for fabric as it block the slow the decay of the mulch into the soil. I have heard that pine nugets can be used to help locally adjust the pH of soil.

I am more of a fan of native hard woods for mulch. It is going to return the materials from the prior generation to the current generation of native plants.
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Yea, the house has been here for 38 years and I don't think many tree's were cut down then and not much work was done in those 38 years to this place.

It's been a lot of work since we bought the place in 1999 (see attached) and we had our choice of tree's to select from to cut down/leave

Most of the good ones we left alone, all the water maples had to go. But as you can see from the photo the water maples did give that afternoon shade I'm now trying to get back with something across the front ;)

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#4 ·
Bark Tissue and root tissue are not the same. The bark will rot / decay if constantly moist then the Cambium layer will start to suffer then the tree dies. Most of the time this is a problem for trees planted too deep or dirt pushed up on it. Mulch can have the same effect.

Hence we like to see the root flare.
 
Discussion starter · #5 ·
Duekster said:
Bark Tissue and root tissue are not the same. The bark will rot / decay if constantly moist then the Cambium layer will start to suffer then the tree dies. Most of the time this is a problem for trees planted too deep or dirt pushed up on it. Mulch can have the same effect.

Hence we like to see the root flare.
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I'll get that bark away from the bottom tonight, again thanks.
 
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Discussion starter · #10 ·
Thanks guys, I'll get to the links later but while the sun was on the tree's you can get a better picture of what I'm talking about, its only the tree on the right so far and the leaves are "upsidedown"???? You can see the lighter shade of green between it and the rest.

I got the water hose on it for the last two hours, about 100 gallon of water soaking in and keep moving the hose.

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Discussion starter · #12 ·
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#14 ·
Duekster said:
Image


See the flare at the bottom of the tree?
The base of a tree should look kind of like your foot does at the end of your leg. You do not want to see a stick like a telephone pole coming out of the ground.

Your trees look very mature. It appears as if they were left after clearing the site for the home construction. How long ago was that?

I suspect the feeder roots are far enough out into the lawn area that the fabric is not causing a problem. Trees look very tall and narrow like they were in a more dense growth with other trees.

Still do not care for fabric as it block the slow the decay of the mulch into the soil. I have heard that pine nugets can be used to help locally adjust the pH of soil.

I am more of a fan of native hard woods for mulch. It is going to return the materials from the prior generation to the current generation of native plants.
Click to expand...
Duekster is right on with his statements.

Kirk, I haven't read all your posts, but many that I have read makes it appear that you (IMHO) are overcaring for your landscape. I could be mistaken though. If the trees didn't have 6" of mulch\organic material around them when you moved in, then they shouldn't now. I don't think you will find a recommendation from any university or landscaper that says you should have 6" of mulch.

Landscape fabric or paper or whatever is one of the biggest scams to ever be foisted on this industry. Other than keeping stone out of the soil, it is a waste of time, money and energy.

Back to the "overcaring". God created these trees to live without your help, and they had been doing so for quite some time. Now you are trying to make it look better--good for you--but changing all kinds of conditions that these trees had been living in for 30 or 40 years.

You say you are watering the roots, where is the hose end? Are you really watering the roots? Do they need water? Have you checked the soil with a probe? Is there anything else going on? Has the root level been changed--other than the excessive mulch--in the past 10 years since you moved in? It takes approximately 5 years for a tree to go into decline following severe stress. Has it undergone a lot of stress in the past 5 years?

Not sure if you have Sudden Oak Death down there, but I would stay away from any kind of trimming or pruning of oaks during the growing season.
 
Discussion starter · #15 ·
phasthound said:
Instructions on submitting samples for diagnosis.
http://www.ca.uky.edu/agcollege/plantpathology/ext_files/submitting-ppa9.pdf
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I've done that for the dogwoods in the front yard, you may have seen that thread, not sure. But I just noticed the oaks.

Mark Oomkes said:
Duekster is right on with his statements.

Kirk, I haven't read all your posts, but many that I have read makes it appear that you (IMHO) are overcaring for your landscape.

Thanks Mark and your probably right, I probably am over reacting due to a couple a things, first being the lack of rain we've had here and something that happened last fall which scared me so I'm attempting to make sure it don't repeat this year.

The Oaks started losing the leaves way to early, it was on the news about this and a local tree service was interviewed about it, forget what it was but a lot of Oaks were dying. I called the tree service, he came out and said yes, thats what it was and wanted to do "Tree injections"???? Wanted to charge $800 for the injections and said if it wasn't done they would be dead this spring :laugh:

As you can see they came out beautiful but I'm also watching them for signs of what they did last year and YES treating them with kid cloves

I could be mistaken though. If the trees didn't have 6" of mulch\organic material around them when you moved in, then they shouldn't now. I don't think you will find a recommendation from any university or landscaper that says you should have 6" of mulch.

The mulch was just for the landscaping and to prevent having to weed eat around them, keep the trunk safe from getting hit, etc. I've heard of people killing tree's like this with round up so I chose not to even touch them with such. The mulch was freshened up for three years in a role now, thats how it got to be 6" thick as I didn't remove any.

Landscape fabric or paper or whatever is one of the biggest scams to ever be foisted on this industry. Other than keeping stone out of the soil, it is a waste of time, money and energy.

Back to the "overcaring". God created these trees to live without your help, and they had been doing so for quite some time. Now you are trying to make it look better--good for you--but changing all kinds of conditions that these trees had been living in for 30 or 40 years.

You say you are watering the roots, where is the hose end? Are you really watering the roots? Do they need water? Have you checked the soil with a probe? Is there anything else going on? Has the root level been changed--other than the excessive mulch--in the past 10 years since you moved in? It takes approximately 5 years for a tree to go into decline following severe stress. Has it undergone a lot of stress in the past 5 years?

No to all the above and as for the hose I watered all the way around inside the landscaping where the landscaping fabric used to be, outside the landscaping I was sure it got water because it could get though the grass to the roots all winter.

Not sure if you have Sudden Oak Death down there, but I would stay away from any kind of trimming or pruning of oaks during the growing season.
Pruned the suckers down low back in the spring, only other cutting would had been 3 years back and YES in the middle of the summer but not by us, neighbor felt it necessary to prune the branches up high back to the property line but don't think that hurt them.

Thanks again, you eased my mind so like Duekster said, get the mulch back away from the foot which I did last night and I might note, that wasn't much there maybe an inch.
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#16 ·
I would like a couple of shots of the tree of concern.

Give me a close up of the trunk.

Give me a shot under from about 10 feet out of the canopy to under the canopy to the trunk.

Give me a shot of the whole tree.


Was there a tree next to it that you removed? You mentioned removing some trees.

Has any thing happened along the edge of the canopy? Landscape, the use of heavy equipment, vehicular traffic?

What has changed if anything?


Oh and what Type of Oak?
 
#18 ·
I've heard of people killing tree's like this with round up so I chose not to even touch them with such.

You've heard wrong. Most likely.

It's possible, but not likely.
 
#19 ·
kirk1701 said:
phasthound I agree there is a wealth of information, on both your links. So much so I don't know what I'm looking for but thanks.
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That's why forums are useful... specific questions with specific answers in a simple straightforward fashion... and many times there is more than one idea and more than one solution to any given bit of botany... :)
 
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Discussion starter · #20 ·
Duekster said:
I would like a couple of shots of the tree of concern.

Give me a close up of the trunk.

Give me a shot under from about 10 feet out of the canopy to under the canopy to the trunk.

Give me a shot of the whole tree.

Was there a tree next to it that you removed? You mentioned removing some trees.

Has any thing happened along the edge of the canopy? Landscape, the use of heavy equipment, vehicular traffic?

What has changed if anything?

Oh and what Type of Oak?
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Sorry it took all day to repost, busy day.
No herbs since March or April, I use very little and spot spray when needed. Soon as the grape vines start to bud the herbs go in the cabinet.

I didn't get the bark back last night before it got dark, spent the majority of my time watering and with this heat its a full time job. So, as you can see there wasn't much bark around it to begin with I pulled it back with my hand for the pictures.

Hope these are what your asking for, wasn't sure what you meant by canopy?

Yes, there was a tree next to it actually it was growing together and so close to the road the state wanted to get it away from the lines so we let them take the whole tree as it would been one sided. That was 5 years ago.

Landscape, no heavy equipment, traffic and nothing changed.

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kirk1701
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