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Changing bermuda to fescue (Zone 7b)

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Paul P

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Discussion starter · #1 ·
So I am hoping to get an expert opinion on my plan of attack to transition my lawn from bermuda grass to fescue. I have too much shade in my yard and the bermuda grass is slowly fading away. I had decent success doing part of my yard where the bermuda grass was nearly non-existent (no more than 25% thickness from the original sod placement). Now I will be doing the remainder of my yard which ranges from 15%-75% thickness depending on the amount of shade.

1) No more pre-emergent on my lawn, then start the fescue plan of attack likely around mid-September
2) Apply Bayer Advanced Bermuda Grass herbicide, a couple days before seeding
3) Dethatch my bermuda and aerate my entire lawn. I am hoping that this would help break up the lawn from any remaining pre-emergent as well as loosen up the soil a bit.
4) Mow the lawn on the lowest setting to pick up the thatch as well as pick up the clippings
5) Apply a compost topdressing
6) Lay down the fescue seed
7) Use either a wood fiber or straw blanket roll out mat on the heavier sloped areas to minimized runoff and loose straw in the non-sloped areas
8) Water, Water, Water, and then water some more
9) Reapply the same and/or different bermuda selective herbicide whenever the label states it is fine after new seeding, as well as in the spring and summer of next year


I'd be glad to include some pictures if this would help.
 
#3 ·
Paul P said:
So I am hoping to get an expert opinion on my plan of attack to transition my lawn from bermuda grass to fescue. I have too much shade in my yard and the bermuda grass is slowly fading away. I had decent success doing part of my yard where the bermuda grass was nearly non-existent (no more than 25% thickness from the original sod placement). Now I will be doing the remainder of my yard which ranges from 15%-75% thickness depending on the amount of shade.

1) No more pre-emergent on my lawn, then start the fescue plan of attack likely around mid-September
2) Apply Bayer Advanced Bermuda Grass herbicide, a couple days before seeding
3) Dethatch my bermuda and aerate my entire lawn. I am hoping that this would help break up the lawn from any remaining pre-emergent as well as loosen up the soil a bit.
4) Mow the lawn on the lowest setting to pick up the thatch as well as pick up the clippings
5) Apply a compost topdressing
6) Lay down the fescue seed
7) Use either a wood fiber or straw blanket roll out mat on the heavier sloped areas to minimized runoff and loose straw in the non-sloped areas
8) Water, Water, Water, and then water some more
9) Reapply the same and/or different bermuda selective herbicide whenever the label states it is fine after new seeding, as well as in the spring and summer of next year

I'd be glad to include some pictures if this would help.
Click to expand...
Is moving an option?:)

Seriously, you are in a war and the Bermuda is a tough enemy.

Several homeowners here are using turflon ester with good results in their attempt to control Bermuda. One lawn, in particular was sodded over a lot of Bermuda. The father of the homeowner was very diligent to spray regularly using turflon ester and we rarely see any breakthrough.

The areas of shade will be easy to control. Full sun is another story. One mistake, imo, is doing nothing in the late spring and early summer when Bermuda is still tender and susceptible to control. Folks let it spread all summer and then try to kill it in August-September.

Many are getting away from using Roundup because it doesn't actually eliminate Bermuda.
 
Discussion starter · #4 ·
sjessen said:
Is moving an option?:)

Seriously, you are in a war and the Bermuda is a tough enemy.

Several homeowners here are using turflon ester with good results in their attempt to control Bermuda. One lawn, in particular was sodded over a lot of Bermuda. The father of the homeowner was very diligent to spray regularly using turflon ester and we rarely see any breakthrough.

The areas of shade will be easy to control. Full sun is another story. One mistake, imo, is doing nothing in the late spring and early summer when Bermuda is still tender and susceptible to control. Folks let it spread all summer and then try to kill it in August-September.

Many are getting away from using Roundup because it doesn't actually eliminate Bermuda.
Click to expand...
Thanks for the tip on the turflon ester. I'll likely use that next year in the spring/summer to precent it from coming back since that states I need to wait 3 weeks to overseed. My hope is that between virtually scalping the lawn with the mower and then topdressing it, I should be able to get a decent root uptake with the fescue seeds.
 
#5 ·
One of the nice features about using the turflon ester is that there are no large "bald" spots in the lawn.

If you are planning on using Roundup this fall, would think you could begin any time. What some do here is spray, wait 2-3 weeks spray anything green, wait 2-3 weeks spray again. In the meantime remove the dead plant material. Aerating and/or slice seeding has worked well here.

You already likely know this - water it a lot and then water it some more.

Our over seeding season begins mid to late August here. Last year we had a streak of 90+ degree days in mid September that killed a lot of new lawns that were just beginning to come up. Some had to seed 3 times last fall.
 
#8 ·
I'd blanket the area with a strong application of gly/RU. Kill it. Do so now so you have time to kill what comes back, because some will. You will need the heat of summer to truly see that its dead. Few things are as resilient.

Then proceed with the plan, and have turflon ester and fusilade II in your back pocket for spring when it comes back in the sunny areas.
 
Discussion starter · #10 ·
agrostis said:
I would like to see your pictures.
Click to expand...
Here are some pics of my grass

Grass around one tree/flower bed. I already had to extend the mulch once due to shade issues The grass island here is what little fescue was able to root this spring this year

Shade problem around the above bed:

General grass area with some brown areas:

Erosion due to lack of grass around a tree:

Thanks for the advice everybody, I'll hit the grass with some herbicide soon before the topdressing and seeding to give me the best chance, as well as frequent triclopyr ester next year in the spring and fall
Image
 
#11 ·
You really should work on thinning the trees and doing everything you can to improve the sunlight situation. Your going to have spotty grass in the shade whether its fescue or bermuda.

Trying to grow fescue in Raleigh is a tall order, especially in summer. If your east of I-95 you should only grow warm season grass (bermuda) and your only 35 miles from that road. Better be ready to reseed every fall. (just like me)

Your going to find out that bermuda grass is here to stay. You'll see what i mean if your seriously trying to get rid of it. Good Luck.
 
Discussion starter · #13 ·
windflower said:
In 34 years I have seen 1 lawn successfully converted from bermuda. They used a bobcat to remove the top 8 inches. Other attempts ended up with bermuda as a difficult to control weed.
Click to expand...
I understand that bermuda will be nearly impossible to completely remove, especially since I am surrounded by bermuda grass with my neighbors on both side. But the amount of overall shade is slowly thinning out large areas of my lawn, and I don't want to have a strong mix of warm and cool season grasses. I am fine with treating it as a weed versus a bad lawn causing erosion and moss growth.
 
#14 ·
Paul P said:
. . . I don't want to have a strong mix of warm and cool season grasses. . . .
Click to expand...
I think what folks are trying to tell you is basically no matter what you do, that's what you will have. In Summer full sun the fescue will struggle and the bermuda will always be there trying to take over and invading from neighbors'. In shade, the bermuda will struggle and if well irrigated and treated for fungus the fescue will dominate. Very, very hard to fight that - can be done but be ready to make a career out of it.
 
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