So glad to be back and making new friends... well all my homework is done and I'm ready for class. After 6 days and 5 pages of posts "helping/guessing" at the OPs issue and not hearing "my blower runs" my first post which to this point still hasn't been answered was simple order of diagnosing this issue. He tore down a unit with no compression and found his valves, head, and piston covered in carbon(common problem with this blower) he reassembled and now no spark (supposedly) 2nd coil still no spark(as stated before doubtful) in 5+ years of working on this blower I've replaced 2 BR600 coils both of which were damaged by customer error not faulty. If we were talking about the clear top coil marked 4180 400 1308A that comes on multiple fc fs hl ht Sthil units then I'm game. I have changed 20 or more in the last few months and have a warranty box full of them. If I'm going to diagnose a unit I'm going to start @ step 1 not step 4. What good will a new coil and flywheel be with timing off? How does the incoming signal on the digital coil with circuit board and micro processor that control spark, advance, and the built in Rev limiter to ******/govern spark all work? Remember this is a digital coil not analog. ..Quality signal in quality signal out...

You know what I'm sorry OP and readers of this post I'm wrong your right! Happy now....? Sorry I was trying to help diagnose a problem based of training and experience not guessing and parts changing. Well lunch is over and got a lot of work here in the shop to do. Good luck and hope your issue is solved/guessed soon, must be nice working under a shade tree....
OP feel free to PM me if you want some help I'm done posting on here should have just stayed working my mistake.....
Posted via Mobile Device

MowerMedic77,

Welcome back!

Let's back up a step here...
The "incoming signal" to the ignition coil would begin with the flywheel... Being that the ignition coil is fixed in place, and the flywheel actually spins to trigger the ignition coil, what does cam timing have to do with it? The ignition coil has NO idea and could careless about a piston, valves ect... It only takes orders from the flywheel...

One day I hope to maybe goto school on this stuff and learn all about it, then be a professional mechanic and who knows, maybe even own my own shop... A boy can dream...

 

I think what MM means, as I do. There isn't a thing wrong with it producing spark.
The reason it won't start is a timing issue and probably has enough spark to knock
you on you're butt. Just a misdiagnosis. It makes no sense.

 

MowerMedic77,

Welcome back!

;

One day I hope to maybe goto school on this stuff and learn all about it, then be a professional mechanic and who knows, maybe even own my own shop... A boy can dream...

I had that dream...and lived it for 10 years...it looked better in the brochure.....
Id have traded it for a rich old lady that could cook....and didn't snore....or fart in her sleep..
Keep dreamin the dream....

 

See that Ricky he's a smart one, he gets it...
I was trying not to have a battle of wits with an unarmed person but here we go....
Thank you shade tree Jeff for your warm albeit insincere welcome. I think further education for you is a great idea! Start with that GED and move onto some community college. Pickup a Popular Mechanics mag and find that card in the back for an online small engine class, who knows you might be able to get a job at a golf course or I know a go-kart track! I think that is just your speed tune-ups, oil changes and tire inflation. I say this because I doubt your ready for the pace and volume required to work in a real shop that would require you to diagnose and repair 10-12 pieces of equipment daily not just guess and throw parts at it praying every time you pull the rope "please start this time" I also doubt any busy dealer with well trained and highly payed techs will be happy having them stopping to hold your hand all day.
I know I will be ready for the next faze of digital ignition electronic fuel managed[Oh yeah that's coming] emission compliant 2cycle and 4 mix equipment... will you?
I have an idea.... maybe pop a squat under the old shade tree and wait for it to bare some knowledge fruit. Then when it ripens drops and bonks ya on the head... maybe then you will be ready.... but I doubt it....
OP your in good hands with shade tree Jeff helping you, hopefully he can get ya back up and running before next summer or you run out of money!
Thanks everyone this was fun but I got real life issues to take care of so until the next time I got nothing else going on.... see ya
Posted via Mobile Device

 

I have a BR600 that has no spark, just bought a new ignition coil and still no spark. I tried different airgaps from .008 up to .014 and nothing changed. The micro switch in the handle ohmed out good so I know it isnt that.
I tried it with an adjustable spark tester also. I recently disassembled the whole blower and was using an impact gun to get the fan off the other end of the crankshaft, and I'm wondering if the shock may have damaged something inside the Ignition flywheel. Is there more than just magnets in the flywheel? Thanks for any help.

It absolutely has no spark. I've already checked it with kill wires off and had no spark. I'm completely baffled, unless the new coil is bad also.

Went back to the dealer today and exchanged the coil. Installed at .010" airgap and still no spark. So I just ordered a new flywheel/rotor, because its the only other component involved. If that does'nt fix it then that means the dealer has a whole batch of bad coils, or theres been a polar shift in the world and we're all gonna die soon!

Both new coils that I got were the solid black potting material.
As for the sheared key, that in no way would prevent it from producing a spark. The timing might be a few degrees off, but you would still have a normal looking spark. I simply have no spark at all.

The reason for working on this blower is that it quit running about 2 months ago, and when I tried to restart it, I could feel that it had no compression. I first checked the valve clearances, which were good so I figured there is a hole in the piston or a broken valve.
I was taking the fan off so I could get the engine off. When I was trying to get the nut off, I was holding the fan not knowing that it was attached to the fan. I was using penetrating oil and trying over and over to get the fan off. Then I found that I had a metric tap that would work as a piston stop, the fan/nut came right off. But I feel that repeatedly trying to get it off with the impact gun must have damaged the flywheel internally.
When I got the engine apart, what I found was a lot of carbon build up around the exhaust valve, port and on top of the piston. I cleaned everything up and put it back together, has compression now but no spark.
Waiting for flywheel to show up and then will post results. Hopefully will arrive this week.

I think what MM means, as I do. There isn't a thing wrong with it producing spark.
The reason it won't start is a timing issue and probably has enough spark to knock
you on you're butt. Just a misdiagnosis. It makes no sense.

Ohh, I must have misunderstood the OP then... See, I thought the OP stated several times that he had NO SPARK... IF it was "producing" spark I would think the OP would have said "I have a BR600 that has spark, but won't start", no?

 

Them sparks can be illusive...try another sparkplug.....or another mechanic..

 

OK guys here we go. Got the new flywheel today, first thing I did was hold a screwdriver upto the magnets of the old flywheel and the new one. The magnets in the new one were atleast 5 times stronger then the old one. Installed the flywheel and checked for spark, nice blue spark. Now I know that the manual says to use the ZAT 4 tester, but I dont have one. Installed spark plug and fired right up. It runs like it did when it was new, in the process of putting it all back together, I found that the throttle was only opening maybe 2/3 for god knows how long, because since I've owned it I never checked throttle opening. Thanks to all who replied.

 

Well WJC, I don't think anyone will use an impact gun to remove the fanwheel.

 

Well WJC, I don't think anyone will use an impact gun to remove the fanwheel.

I know I sure wont!

 

See that Ricky he's a smart one, he gets it...
I was trying not to have a battle of wits with an unarmed person but here we go....
Thank you shade tree Jeff for your warm albeit insincere welcome. I think further education for you is a great idea! Start with that GED and move onto some community college. Pickup a Popular Mechanics mag and find that card in the back for an online small engine class, who knows you might be able to get a job at a golf course or I know a go-kart track! I think that is just your speed tune-ups, oil changes and tire inflation. I say this because I doubt your ready for the pace and volume required to work in a real shop that would require you to diagnose and repair 10-12 pieces of equipment daily not just guess and throw parts at it praying every time you pull the rope "please start this time" I also doubt any busy dealer with well trained and highly payed techs will be happy having them stopping to hold your hand all day.
I know I will be ready for the next faze of digital ignition electronic fuel managed[Oh yeah that's coming] emission compliant 2cycle and 4 mix equipment... will you?
I have an idea.... maybe pop a squat under the old shade tree and wait for it to bare some knowledge fruit. Then when it ripens drops and bonks ya on the head... maybe then you will be ready.... but I doubt it....
OP your in good hands with shade tree Jeff helping you, hopefully he can get ya back up and running before next summer or you run out of money!
Thanks everyone this was fun but I got real life issues to take care of so until the next time I got nothing else going on.... see ya
Posted via Mobile Device

WHOA, WHOA, WHOA, back the truck up there MowerMedic77!!!

It is one thing to pop on here in the middle of a persons post and spew your LACK of knowledge... Then there is the crossing of the line and personally coming after me!

First of all, I do find it necessary to "plug" myself on here so that others might then feel better about the information I give... I try to give factual information to everyone, as I feel I have done here!

Secondly, in my opinion, your lack of knowledge shines brighter than the sun with the information you have given thus far on this topic. You still have not answered a very BASIC question of how the timing of the valves have anything to do with the ability of an ignition coil to produce spark. Which is NONE!

As far as your thinking goes that you doubt I'm ready for the pace and volume required to work in a real shop... Well, the fact is that I own my own business, I am a Stihl Dealer, Silver Certified (100% on test, thank you very much!), diagnose/repair 10-12 BEFORE lunch everyday and have done so for nearly 20 years! Not to mention being in this business for nearly 30 years! Also a Briggs & Stratton MST, EETC Certified and so on...

But enough about me, lets get back to you...

As far as your comment of "I will be ready for the next faze of digital ignition electronic fuel managed[Oh yeah that's coming] emission compliant 2cycle and 4 mix equipment...Will you?" (I copied and pasted what you said, but I think phase is what you meant).

Well, here's a little news flash for ya... It is already here!!!
Perhaps you should actually pay attention in the update classes and the TI Bulletins! If you did, you would know what M-Tronic is, or that the TS500I is Fuel Injected... Look into it!

So next time before you decide to pop your mouth off on a person, stop for a second and don't assume everyone is a "shadetree" mechanic... Nor should you pretend to know it all!

 

OK guys here we go. Got the new flywheel today, first thing I did was hold a screwdriver upto the magnets of the old flywheel and the new one. The magnets in the new one were atleast 5 times stronger then the old one. Installed the flywheel and checked for spark, nice blue spark. Now I know that the manual says to use the ZAT 4 tester, but I dont have one. Installed spark plug and fired right up. It runs like it did when it was new, in the process of putting it all back together, I found that the throttle was only opening maybe 2/3 for god knows how long, because since I've owned it I never checked throttle opening. Thanks to all who replied.

WJC,

Aren't ya glad you didn't tear it all the way back down to "recheck the cam timing" only to find out it obviously makes NO difference as to the ability of an ignition coil to fire or not?

I suspect MowerMedic77 will be along anytime now to apologize and be a man to say he was wrong... We'll see how that goes...

I still can't believe enough "shock" was transmitted from the fanwheel side, through the crankshaft to knock out the magnetism in the flywheel... I could see if the flywheel was being hammered on though.

Oh well, ya learn something new everyday!

Glad to hear ya got it back up and going!

 

Me apologize...pppffftt! For what? The only person who should is you! For sending the OP on a time and money wasting mission for coils that obviously "WORKED" again the reason dealers don't take back ignition parts sold otc.
The only thing I'm sorry about is assuming the person who incorrectly tore down this blower and damaged his own parts may not have re-assembled it correctly(never answered my original question so...)
Sheared key or demagnitized both equal...... bad flywheel! And since he was already getting a new one... in my opinion it was a mute point!
And the very simple check for timing could be done without tearing it down, guess I should be sorry for also assuming you would also know that too!
Because what would be the point of a new coil and flywheel with an incorrectly timed engine? Oh I know he could have put that new coil and flywheel on pulled the rope backfired, knocked, diesel(ed) whichever term you like, and possibly re-shear his new flywheel....
So on second thought I am also sorry for trying to correctly diagnose his issue and save him some time and money....
I sure hope the hardworking people of Alabama have a good GOLD level dealer to take repairs to... cause I'm guessing the 10-20 Jeff does before lunch might be the comebacks from the day before...

Remember owning a wrench makes you no more of a mechanic then owning a piano makes you a pianist.... easy mods I called him a pianist not a ****
Posted via Mobile Device

 

Maybe if the OP stated he beat the hell out of the flywheel, this thread would not have dragged on for 7 pages.
No way in hell an impact gun can produce the shock waves to damage the magnetic fields of the flywheel.
No way in hell. You learn in grade school that banging a magnet directly can damage it. The only other logical thing was timing. Ign wise or cam.

 

I'm thinking it's time you kids quit fighting and let this thread come to an end. It's not going to get any better from here. Let's get back to what this forum is about--helping each other. IMO, you guys are killing this forum! Let it stop and move on!!
Posted via Mobile Device

 

We didn't mean to upset you. Kumbaya brother Kumbaya.

 

Me apologize...pppffftt! For what? The only person who should is you! For sending the OP on a time and money wasting mission for coils that obviously "WORKED" again the reason dealers don't take back ignition parts sold otc.
The only thing I'm sorry about is assuming the person who incorrectly tore down this blower and damaged his own parts may not have re-assembled it correctly(never answered my original question so...)
Sheared key or demagnitized both equal...... bad flywheel! And since he was already getting a new one... in my opinion it was a mute point!
And the very simple check for timing could be done without tearing it down, guess I should be sorry for also assuming you would also know that too!
Because what would be the point of a new coil and flywheel with an incorrectly timed engine? Oh I know he could have put that new coil and flywheel on pulled the rope backfired, knocked, diesel(ed) whichever term you like, and possibly re-shear his new flywheel....
So on second thought I am also sorry for trying to correctly diagnose his issue and save him some time and money....
I sure hope the hardworking people of Alabama have a good GOLD level dealer to take repairs to... cause I'm guessing the 10-20 Jeff does before lunch might be the comebacks from the day before...

Remember owning a wrench makes you no more of a mechanic then owning a piano makes you a pianist.... easy mods I called him a pianist not a ****
Posted via Mobile Device

MowerMedic77,

If I'm not mistaken, I'm pretty sure I said that the dealer needs to VERIFY the coil had no fire prior to getting a new coil, no?

Again, you call into question if the OP had "reassembled" the engine incorrectly (cam timing)... Once again, cam timing makes ZERO diference in the ability of a known good ignition coil and plug to produce fire, PERIOD!

Once again you lack of knowledge shines pretty bright thinking that just because a flywheel key is sheared, that the flywheel is garbage... I would have thought that you would have known it is the "taper" of the crank and flywheel that actually lock them together and that the "key" is only there for assembly reasons. You know, kinda like how it is done in racing, most don't even use a flywheel key! Hmm, surprized you didn't know that!

Now here, ... Here is where you really shine bright with your less than basic knowledge!
You have insisted since your first spew of information that the OP didn't have the "cam timing" set and was the reason for his no fire condition...

I have asked you several times now to explain how "cam timing" or "valve timing" or what ever you want to call it has a damn thing to do with the ability if an ignition coil to fire is???
You still seem to be avoiding that question? Or perhaps, could it be, that you actually realized that it infact make no difference?

Trust me, my customers are more than happy with the service and knowledge they get from me... Not to mention the ones I get that have been to another dealer, OR the ones my Distributor sends to me who have been to another dealer... So, don't worry about people here, they are in good hands!

Remember, owning a wrench doesn't make you a mechanic!

 

Ignition system troubleshooting flow chart per Stihl...

I must have an old version as there is NO MENTION AT ALL to check cam timing or valve timing.

But, ya'll can decide for yourself...

 

I think there was spark all the time. Sheared key = no start. Period.
I am Gold Level. 98% on final test. 35 yrs dealing with Stihl.
Back to 041's. We are an Elite dealer. I see a few BR600's.
I listen to customers complaint, but never, ever their diagnosis.
Do you? I doubt it. But lets stop. We are upsetting the more sensitive
members with our negativity and bickering. *trucewhiteflag*

 

I think there was spark all the time. Sheared key = no start. Period.

I'm gonna shear the key on one of my br 600s and put this to the test! I will make a video upload it to youtube.

 

Time to close this one out guys:waving: