I know when I built a display of Aberdeen and Monticello, some eff stains were very noticeable, but they now look pretty clean.

This seems to be pretty common among wet cast product. I see the same thing with Devonstone.

 

We just installed a small quantity of Techo product and the mini creta caps had the worst color blending I've ever seen.

I'm too busy to complain, so we'll live with it this one time.
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We installed 15 Techo-Bloc Rocka steps last fall. The finishing on the product was poorly done and the customer was unhappy. The local rep came out. Techo is offering $50 per step to replace them. I wanted double that. This job isn't just plucking the steps out and replacing them. The pavers in between will need repair work also. I'm not looking forward to redoing this job. A final decision has yet to be made.

 

I am very used to efflo on Portafino and the column caps. I can deal with that and yes weathering will help.

With this stuff there are these distinct lines from the foam packaging that go around the caps. The client looks down on the patio from their deck and house and they see all the lines.

I fear that this new wet cast plant they built is working out all the bugs and we contractors are footing a chunk of the bill.

I used hundreds of pallets of Techo last year, and I am rethinking now that they will not stand with me on this (my first warranty issue).

 

Yep thats completely unacceptable. Call Paver Pete and ask him why Techo isnt standing behind its product. Thats alot of coin there. Do they say there is any chance of the lines fading?Maybe use a test cap and try a sealer?
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The bottom pic is after cleaning. Brian Thacker, my Techo Sales guys, and I cleaned and tried sealing several sample pieces and the lines still shine right through. Sealer remedies efflorescence discoloration but not the lines.

Good idea on calling Pete - think I have his number.

 

I find this thread interesting. We had a techo warranty claim this year, though minor. Same thing, I got an email that is was "$x" to replace this and that's the going rate.

The irony to all this is baffling. Here stands Pete, and most any industry professionals, talking at length about how you never should price pavers / walls / steps / anything per sf./each, etc. Why? Because access and conditions can vary tremendously on every job. You have to take into account so many things when estimating to be dead accurate. Drives me nuts when I hear people quote pavers per sf and they haven't even seen the site However when the manufacturer (the ones who preach never do this in seminars) want to do a warranty claim, well then they revert back to doing what they preach not to do. We allocate $xx/sf to replace it. How about you get off your but, send a rep out to see the site, and you can come up with a figure that is respectable for warranty.

Sometimes I just scratch my head.

 

But sometimes, when you go through time, equip, material, etc, and divide by the square footage, some of those SF numbers are PRETTY DANG CLOSE. Sometimes

 

If the product had defects before installing, why was it installed?
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True, on the packaging it says installation is acceptance. But sometimes that stuff disappears

 

If the product had defects before installing, why was it installed?
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Not uncommon at all to install defective product. So many reasons.

1) It's usually laborers pulling the product off the pallets. the laborers don't know how to tell if something is defective. And the leaders are usually busting tail and working as quickly as they can that they don't even look at the material as they're putting it down.

2) Often there is dust in the air as material is being cut, and you don't see the defects until a few days later after everything has been swept off.

3) The business owner see's things that our employees do not. And the owners are not watching as every piece of product is lifted off the pallet. It's like weed pulling - how come I can see every weed in the bed, but employees seem to not see them?

.

 

If the product had defects before installing, why was it installed?
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I've seen product come off of shrink wrapped pallets that is damp due to condensation. You'd never know that there was an issue like this until it was fully installed and dried out. And like Andrew mentioned above it's often dirty and dusty as well making it even harder to identify any discoloration issues.

 

I've had all the same issues with unilock,they are no better and have many excuses.
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We use mostly Cambridge. When we are preparing a proposal we always include an application of effinesence cleaner. We show the customer pictures of all different brands with the problem so that they know it is a possibility. They appreciate this because the other contractors never take this step of letting them know it is common.

 

After months and months of going back and forth between the client, reps, after care representative and all the way to the owners of Techo Bloc, we finally reached resolution. After cleaning failed, Techo paid us to replace. They sent 7 pallets of product manufactured over a 6 month period. None of it matched - go figure. After that was removed from my client's parking lot, we waited for them to manufacture a fresh batch of York Caps. It came through look great and we replaced. They also paid us to clean the new caps after 3 months and seal them. By the time we cleaned, they were looking pretty bad from efflo. We used a solvent based sealer and cut it 50% with Xylene. Looks good and most importantly the client is satisfied. They did pay us much more than their standard sq ft / ln ft rates, but we had to make a clear case for why it was not a normal easy install and why every piece had to be cut twice. All in all, it was a real money losing proposition, but I have to give Techo Bloc credit for sticking with us and bearing some of the costs. It covered most of my labor and material expenses, just had to eat overhead and the profit I would have made had I been on another job. Yes, it does say on the packaging that if you install you accept product, but there are problems that show up later. Just like the iron pyrite contamination in Eagle Bay pavers some years back. This was a case where initially we thought it was condensation and it got worse and worse over several weeks.

 

So, will you continue to use taco-bloc products?

It seems like their quality control is slipping.

I thought one of the reason they shut down in winter is to ensure a perfect product.

I thought the reason why they store aggregate in silos is to ensure a perfect product.

I remember Pete saying "you are not our quality control".

So many scenarios when opening a pallet and working with the material - that their disclaimer on the packaging is a copp-out.
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I am staying away from their wet cast products for now with the exception of Portifino which I feel comfortable cleaning and sealing. The Portifino cap has the faux rock look so it will hide color variation unlike York Caps and their wet cast slabs. I still like Mini-Creta wall, although I have had some batches with more thickness variation in it than I would like. The BLU paver is a winner for us in all the thicknesses. I am wrapping up a job with Linea pavers which will be stunning. I think Techo generally does a great job with dry cast.

I just used EP Henry's coventry wall for the first time and was pleased with the results, so I will definitely consider other brands if Techo doesn't keep up and make improvement on their quality control.

 

There's no doubt they have issues with their wetcast line. I have 6500 sf on the ground now in pallets, all of Aberdeen and it's becoming a mess very quickly.

This will be an interesting topic to discuss in a few weeks.

 

We installed a 500sf travertina walk last fall. We immediately noticed the "halo" effect which apparently was caused by the packaging. The real story is that the halo effect is caused by the outside of the wet-cast slab curing at a faster rate than the inside of the slab thus causing the halo. I believe it was definitely exacerbated by the foam packaging as well.

On the same job we had a 2000sf pool patio, all travertina, to install. The homeowners were 100% dissatisfied with the haloing of the front walk they were not going to go forward with the rear patio. After much back and fourth techo sent out someone to clean the walk. The "cleaner" acid washed the walk 3 times which only made the slabs cleaner. The acid wash made absolutely no difference as far as the halo effect, only made a cleaner halo effect. Techo agreed to warranty the walk and we were able to get shipment for front walk and rear patio all from the same lot. The new shipment had no halo. If techo was to not warranty the work our clients would've/could've sued us and/or techo bloc for replacement.

The new packaging definitely makes a difference. The slabs look much cleaner. But now there is a new problem with the plastic spacers they use to keep slabs separated. The plastic leaves a mark on the slab which hopefully wears off with time.

This new wet cast stuff is a pain in my opinion. Brittle and very easy to scratch. Vacuum lifter definitely a must have for working with slabs.

 

I don't know about you guys, but I find the Hardscape contracting business to be "fast-paced".

When a manufacturers warranty is jammed full of hurdles, then a contractor will shy away from using that brand.

What decent, reputable contractor wants to hold up a job or hold up their customer payment because of a manufacturers hurdles setting in the middle of the road?

Did charlie sell the company?
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I hate nicolock, but this customer already had it in their yard so on the next two projects i had to use it. Both times their were many broken bricks but both times they were replaced same day.

I dont know if this means nicolock has weak bricks or strong customer service but i still install 99% cambridge pavers

 

This is what frustrates me to no end with product issues. If there is a product problem, be it in hardscape, lighting, etc. WE the installer will have time in meetings, removal, reinstallation, disposal, equipment hours, etc.

Hardscape as we all know it, is extremely labor intensive. There's very few corrections that can be made in a few hours.

Add to that, the professional contractors out there who really "gets it" like Andrew and others on this site, job cost. In other words we know what it cost us to "install 1 ton of modified and compact" or "lay 1 sf of parisien 6x6 pavers" and then we track that data with every job. We know labor rates inside and out and site access conditions when we estimate every job.

Then comes along a warranty issue, a product failure. And the manufacturer dances around on what number THEY should attach to labor, implying that there should be a common agreement on labor. The last time I checked in my estimating program for a job, there was no line item (labor code) to be charged to a client for "manufacturers mistakes." We know our labor rates, we know how much time it takes to remove and replace, and that rate should be charged to the manufacturer. This rate will probably vary from contractor to contractor.

I never really understand the "negotiating" thing on warranty issues with manufacturers when its not the installers fault. Why should we shave thousands of dollars off our bottom line when we weren't at fault. I'm not trying to be a PITA, just wondering why installers bend that much at times.

 

In review of their website it looks like Techo now has 9(?) plants. This changes their platform. You can't achieve quality control when you're no longer a small company.

 

Anyone that has been in business for more then a few years should know to NOT use a wet cast product. There is no a single manufacture that has the process figured out. It is nothing but problems. In 2008 EP Henry took a huge hit when I had 2600 sq ft of Devon Stone go bad. It was so bad they PAID for 2600 sq ft of natural bluestone, plus my labor to pull up the devon stone, dispose of and install real bluestone.

As a professional, its our job to direct clients towards products that will hold up well and last a long line. Wet cast products do no meet that requirement.

Matt

 

Anyone that has been in business for more then a few years should know to NOT use a wet cast product. There is no a single manufacture that has the process figured out. It is nothing but problems. In 2008 EP Henry took a huge hit when I had 2600 sq ft of Devon Stone go bad. It was so bad they PAID for 2600 sq ft of natural bluestone, plus my labor to pull up the devon stone, dispose of and install real bluestone.

As a professional, its our job to direct clients towards products that will hold up well and last a long line. Wet cast products do no meet that requirement.

Matt

I'm not so sure I agree with your comment, Rusk-a-roni.

Techo bloc does extensive boasting that they have the best product out there. To an extreme.

So we're trusting their claims. We're trusting that if there is a problem that Techo will remedy the problem very quickly and without any hoops.

Techo-bloc of today is not the Techo-bloc of yesterday that we all come to love. Is Charlie still the owner?
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